Tillering problems. I really think its the wood's fault, not the bowyer.

[WillS]

Glad it helped a bit.  Bit of heat tempering and piking and you might get a solid weight from it.

As for links - I don't have any I'm afraid.  Joe Gibbs has made some for sure that weight, and I have a feeling that somebody posted years ago in here a yew longbow spliced and tillered full compass.  As I'm sure you'll know, some glue types claim to be stronger than the wood itself, so provided it's glued properly you should theoretically be able to pretend it doesn't exist and just proceed as usual!  Theoretically...

(Joe Gibbs isn't human, it's worth noting that.  He's making 177# horsebows and flatbows at the moment.  Splicing and achieving 160# would be a walk in the park for him haha!)

[Goose Fletch]

Thanks for the guidance folks. So i piked an inch off the bottom first and checked it. I think its just about done... =D I can't believe it was that easy.

Now its 83" long and not at my target weight so I will have to continue trimming it. Besides that there is a lot of hand shock. I mean this thing kicks like a mule... I think I should just keep scraping mass off the limbs after gradual piking and constant retillering)

edit* i am shooting an arrow which most resembles the english standard arrow (this one is a tapered poplar shaft, 54 grams, a tip i forged myself, and 7.5" goose feathers)

too bad joe doesnt have a blog or something. =/ in the meantime I will search the various forums for more info on spliced round compass bows

[WillS]

Joe doesn't even use Facebook, it would have to snow in hell before he wrote a blog haha!

On the English Warbow Society forum, he did write that he uses a single 7" Z-splice, for bows over 100# that bend in the handle.  He also mentioned as above that the splice is stronger than the rest of the bow, so it's "easy" if you know what you're doing!

By the way, the arrow you've described (tapered poplar, 7.5" fletchings) is not a Standard arrow, it would fall into the category of a Livery arrow.  The Livery arrow is a specification owned and designed by the English Warbow Society as the closest attainable replica of one found on the Mary Rose.  It's very different to the Westminster arrow which is the only extant medieval arrow.  The Standard arrow - if you were to use the BL-BS/EWBS specification created by Hugh Soar - would be 3/8" parallel shaft, 6" fletchings and a type 16 head or bodkin at a push. 

However, if your arrow is 54 grams, that IS the right weight for a Standard arrow.  The Livery arrow should come out at around 63 grams.  I'm surprised you managed to get tapered poplar to 54 grams!  That's super light even for poplar.

Anyway, that's an aside - the bow looks great!  If you're getting handshock it generally means one of the tips is coming back faster than the other, resulting in an uneven snap to brace height.  A few tweaks to sort out the timing of the limbs and you should be good. 

[Goose Fletch]

gahh. seriously, you archers who are right at the source of cooperative experimentation should consider getting him to do a couple articles any glue recommendations?

i see, so basically a light livery arrow is what ive got.. as for the arrow, hah not sure what i did wrong this 54 gram one was a particularly low density shaft, 31" long, very soft spine, and the lightest in the batch of 40 shafts, so that could be it. the next half dozen that are about to be made into arrows have much denser grain. at 32" long they each weigh 45 grams, and with the rest of the arrow parts, they should come out to between 60 or 65 grams. should be pretty fun soon.

thanks. uneven snap! I'll follow up with the final product and some specs soon! cheers

[WillS]

That's a gorgeous head - is that one you forged yourself?  It's a spitting image of the Type 10s made by Milos Lasky or Mark Stretton.  Perfect for a Standard arrow in fact if the socket was 3/8 

As a point of interest, for those tapered poplar arrows, the head wants to be a Tudor bodkin (in fact, the only way a Livery arrow can be allowed within the regulations is if it has a hand forged Tudor bodkin)

Here are a couple of Tudor bods, have a go at these next, unless you've already made some! 

[Goose Fletch]

Thank you! Yeah. It took hours though, still need to practice. Funny you should say so, i followed the instructions of mark Stretton on those youtube clips, just watched them over and over again. Unfortunately these are the only ones i know how to make so far.

Brother, i cant for the life of me, figure out how those are made. Ive searched everywhere for the technique. Besides buying the dvd, do you know where one could look? Looking at the sockets edges im wondering if most of the tip is just bulk metal left at the tip of a socket and just ground down. The one in the middle is what i would try to replicate.

[WillS]

They're forged through a specialised form and then ground down as you said.  This is a good clip of Simon Stanley making one.  I've skipped the video on for you to the interesting bit!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KR0pvYkZy7A#t=2m34s

In that pic, the one on the far left is Mark's, and is probably the closest you'll ever get to the Tudor head found that dates to the same sort of period as the MR.

[Goose Fletch]

updates!

so this is the bow nearing the final stages. at this point i piked 7", four from the bottom and three from the top. in the photo the left limb is the bottom one. so it looks like its finally come true, except now i am in the process of really thinning the tips out, the bow weighs 893 grams. it does however look a tad stiff in the top (right) tip and a bit near the fades. the bottom (left) looks a little stiff in the middle and it bends just about an inch more than the top. any suggestions for improvement?

[WillS]

Personally at this stage I'd leave it, and flip it upside down.  Make the right limb in that picture the bottom as it's stiffer anyway, and shoot it for a bit to work out any problems, then re-tiller if you feel it's necessary.

[Goose Fletch]

alright, we'll i'll give it a go. should i taper the tips after shooting it in a few hundred times? also should i bother with a wood finish at this stage, just as a preventative measure? its hickory afterall..

[WillS]

What are the tips like at the moment?

[Bowman]

Get the lower limb a little more stiff than the upper. Then you get a nice tiller. Warbows likes a little bit of assymetrical tiller. Thats beautiful. :-)

[Goose Fletch]

What are the tips like at the moment?

The tip on the right limb is 14mm x 14mm, the tip on the left limb is 15mm wide by 17mm thick

Get the lower limb a little more stiff than the upper. Then you get a nice tiller. Warbows likes a little bit of assymetrical tiller. Thats beautiful. :-)

gotcha thank you. it is a little stiffer, but the grain on that side was more dense, so its actually thinner and has less mass on it. i hope warbows dont mind that! as you can see, its only partially more stiff.

[WillS]

What's the weight at the moment?  It doesn't look particularly heavy, so you're probably fine either way, but I discovered (luckily!) that heavy bows can tolerate a single thinner limb.  My 125# yew warbow had such a stiff and naturally recurved bottom limb that the tip is just over 9mm wide and 10mm thick and it's not caused any problems!

[Goose Fletch]

What's the weight at the moment?  It doesn't look particularly heavy, so you're probably fine either way, but I discovered (luckily!) that heavy bows can tolerate a single thinner limb.  My 125# yew warbow had such a stiff and naturally recurved bottom limb that the tip is just over 9mm wide and 10mm thick and it's not caused any problems!

phew! excellent! pretty lucky to have a natural recurved limb. do you have pictures of that yew on the forums?

update!

so i dont have a reliable way of measuring weight except  to hang weight from the string and pull the bow. it fell short of the target weight. its 75# at 75" long at 32" of draw.. so i chopped off another inch off each side, fixed on some antler overlay and called it quits, oh well, it will make a good training bow....but from now on, im splicing a board whenever i can....now the fun begins and i'll start shooting it, just waiting for the polyurethane on the next set of tapered poplar shafts to cure!

also, i found a giant steel spike (like 3cm x 3cm by 45 cm long) from which i plan to make a press to produce the tudor points. id be happy to trade these if they turn out well.

Goose