Sugar Maple Plains Indian Bow

[NeolithicMan]

Wait, so is sugar maple and rock maple the same thing?

[Jesse]

That looks great. Nice work!

[SLIMBOB]

Sugar Maple, Hard Maple and Rock Maple are all the same so far as I understand it.  Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
Thanks Jesse.  That last bow you posted was just a knock-down gorgeous piece of work.

[Wildkatts Kitty]

Was gonna post yesterday, but that whole life getting in the way thing happened. I’m Wildkatts wife. I usually just read P.A. stuff over his shoulder instead of logging in. He called me over because he knew I would love the bow. Nice job dude !!!  She’ll love it!!
When my mother married my biological father, *her* mother worried that she would have to live in a tepee and work on buffalo skins all day. Mom explained to her that my father was a modern “city Indian” and he lived in an apartment and even had running water. Nope, no living like the ancestors. When she remarried when I was 10, her new husband adopted me in a closed adoption in Florida. Found out later on that it meant no access to old birth records and he is on birth certificate. Pissed off his daughters and family big time. They didn’t want a “mixed blood” in the family. Was originally going to do the very major hurdles to get records fixed, but since I didn’t have any kids to pass bloodline down to, it wasn’t important enough to get a card. My wonderful Granddaughters are through Mike.
As an example, did y’all know that any body born before 1963 whos great great grandparent was Cherokee making them 1/32 could get a card? Now you have to be 1/16 (Great grandparent). As recently as last year I have had pasty white people flaunt their card status at me. Really… I am soooo impressed. Yep, your card beats my bloodline. And there are “full bloods” and “mixed bloods” that have a problem with records because their ancestors didn’t sign the “Dawes rolls” and for those who did, a bunch of the rolls were lost in a fire way back when. Guess they’re not legit.
Every Indian/ Native American/ First Nation bow made now is a replica of that time. There is nobody as far as I know living the old life and making bows. A Chickasaw living on a suburban block even if it is a Reservation is not an Old Time Plains Indian living the life. It is all a “style” now. Mike and I are “mixed blood” Apaches. Even his bows are a “style” from the old days. Yeah Wildkatt hunts with a bow off a horse and we live on game meat, yadda, yadda, yadda.  I am NOT living in a wickiup, drying meat on sticks, sleeping wrapped in furs. I *like* showers. If you ain’t living the life, it is only a style. And if you are using power tools, it is only a style. Even Billy Berger was living “caveman style” in that really cool show. That said, my beautiful “Apache style” bow made for me by Half Eye would have made any old warrior proud. No way I’m I going to look down on that bow because hes not Apache. Go ahead.. call me ignorant…

[half eye]

Wasn't gonna comment but then read the entire post, wow... Slim that bow is magnificent and is an excellent representation by any sane persons reasoning. You call it what you want to man, I like your "style" sir and your bow too!!!!!

Thank you for the nice comment Ms. Kitty

hell of a bow right there.
rich

[SLIMBOB]

Miss Kitty, you have expressed my thoughts on this matter much more eloquently than I ever could have and I can add nothing to that.  I am honored greatly by your contribution to the conversation.  Thank you!
half eye, I have said it before and I will say it again, I consider you the Master of these little short bows and your praise is to me the highest compliment.  Thank you.

[half eye]

Slim,   aint a master of anything, but I do know a fine bow when I see it. No thanks necessary, I'm just stating the obvious,eh?
rich

[Oglala Bowyer]

Well I'm happy to admit I'm 1/16 Rottweiler  and 1/4 boston terrier. I even have a stupid card to show my pedigree; just like horses and dogs 

[Traxx]

Its not a matter of political correctness,or whether your great grandmother was a Cherokee princess or not.Its about it being a federal law that protects Native people from fraud and abuse,plain and simple,regardless if you agree with it or not.If their was a thread concerning breaking any other federal or state laws,im sure the thread would be debated just the same and most likely removed.

[tipi stuff]

Somehow I fail to see any deliberate attempt at fraud or deceit. I've got a feeling this one wouldn't get very far in court. My circle of associates includes replicators, scholars, writers, artists, and historians. It is also, as on this board, made up of people of various cultures from around the globe. This group includes Europeans, Asians, Australians, New Zealanders and North Americans. I see misrepresentation of artifacts that go on the auction block all the time. Put a little patina on it, and it's ready to be sold as an original. Most of the time, it is not the maker that is misrepresenting the item. It is usually someone that purchased it as a replica, then sold it, and then it appears as an original. I completely agree that this is an unscrupulous way to transact business, and it is a deliberate attempt to deceive someone. This should be prosecuted fully. I also know a number of Indian, or if you prefer Native, craftsmen and women that depend on their craft for a living. There are several of you on this site who know me, and you also know some of the people in the Indian community that I am referring to. This then leads to the argument over blood quantum, adoption, and marriage into an Indian family. I know people that fall into every conceivable category of this discussion, and this could be argued for years (actually it has been and still is). What it all boils down to is intentional deceit. That was not done in this case.
                                 Curtis

[PeteC]

That's a very nice bow Slimbob. Where are you getting your sugar maple?. Is it from Texas trees? God Bless

[Marc St Louis]

Very nice bow

I know you guys down there have strict laws about calling anything "native", as I was told by Rand Rowe.  Rand made me a native "style" flute years ago as a trade and as he said, he couldn't call it a native flute because he wasn't native and could be prosecuted by law if he did.  It is something to consider.  Up here we have no such laws and I could call any of my bows native bows even if they aren't, on the other hand I could do that anyway since I do have a card  .

Well done in any case and happy to see that heat-treating worked so well on that Maple

[PatM]

Nice bow. I like the style. Call it what you want.
 Certainly shouldn't be selling stuff as if it legitimately came from the hands of a Native.
 It would be nice if the Natives stopped selling stuff made in China as Native though.  Lot of that out there.

[Marc St Louis]

It would indeed Pat.

[SLIMBOB]

First, let me say that IndianGuy and I have spoken by PM.  We have decided that it was in both our best interest that we agree to disagree on this and move on from it.  Try to find some common ground on which we can agree and we have.  Neither of us is likely to change our minds on this issue and that's ok.  More than ok, it's ideal that we can disagree, strongly, and then shake hands and move on.
Traxx, I find your comment beyond ridiculous.  You've read this post and believe that I am guilty of attempting some type of fraud?  This bow was made as a gift for a 13 year old girl.  She and her parents had seen a bow of mine and asked if I would make her and her dad each a bow.  I make kids bows for free.  I wont charge anything for them.  I love making bows and I love seeing kids shoot them.  She had asked if I could put horse hair on it from her horses, so a Plains Bow it was. They were not looking for any type of collectable, just a couple of fun bows they can shoot together.  This was not an attempt at making a replica in any sense of the word and I did not put it forward as such.  It has a Dacron string and a Poly finish on it??  I can and do make replicas and I will identify them as such.  By the way her mother is as white as I am and her father is Indian...from India.  I normally direct people to this site if I have made a bow for them so they can read about it, and the kids think it just too cool that their bow has been seen and commented on by people all over the world.  I wont be able to do that on this one because of all this nonsense.  What disturbs me more Traxx is rather than engage me in some type open discussion on this topic, you call for the thread to be shut down and any further discussion ended.  I find that idea very troubling Sir.  Re-read the post and see if you may have missed something.
Oglala Bowyer, your pedigree looks remarkably similar to mine.
Curt, thanks for chiming in.  Your work on items of the Southern Cheyenne culture is known far and wide as some of the best recreations in the world.  The schools and seminars you put on for adults and children alike to teach about this culture should be and in fact are seen by many of every ethnicity as an honor to the period and the people.  I am honored to call you my friend.