Author Topic: to perfect?  (Read 5008 times)

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Offline Dances with squirrels

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Re: to perfect?
« Reply #15 on: April 15, 2014, 09:26:40 am »
I don't strive for perfection, but I do try to make the best bows I'm capable of each and every time. I don't like to settle for less than that.

I don't feel it necessary to adhere to anyone else's definition of 'primitive' or 'traditional', and rarely ever use those words in reference to my bowmaking, but to borrow a phrase... "just because it's primitive doesn't mean it has to be crude."
Straight wood may make a better bow, but crooked wood makes a better bowyer

Offline Marc St Louis

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Re: to perfect?
« Reply #16 on: April 15, 2014, 09:29:34 am »
I look for prefection in each build [maybe not in the finish work] :)but in the functional part of the bow never seem to make it,always something that don't go as planned. I tell folks that is what I love about it,problem solving from start to finish. Been looking for the prefect stave for close to 30 years,ant found it yet but I feel sure I will someday,it has to be one out there somewhere. ;)
 Pappy

Why Mark, every stave is perfect  :)

If you don't strive to improve then you might as well give up now
Home of heat-treating, Corbeil, On.  Canada

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Offline Pappy

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Re: to perfect?
« Reply #17 on: April 15, 2014, 10:03:26 am »
They really are Marc,at least they are all unique in their own way which make them prefect. :)
   Pappy
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Offline Bogaman

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Re: to perfect?
« Reply #18 on: April 15, 2014, 10:20:19 am »
When I first started making bows in the early 90's there wasn't a lot of info out there, and what was often was contradictory. Confusing to a new comer. Then the Bowyers Bibles came along and helped clear a few things up. Some things were still left up in the air.
A lot of stick bow people started hanging out on the Leatherwall. There was always some lively discussion about one thing or another. Most topics were efforts at making the perfect bow. At that time the stick bow guys started to out number the regular traditional crowd.
Some how we got hung up on the yellow wood/white wood comparison. After some heavy even heated debates, we decided to end the controversy by having a get together and doing some testing. Many of us had only met thru the internet, and we also thought it would be a good way to meet face to face.
We decided on a central location, and Keith Bishop offered to hold our get together in Marshal Mo. at the bow clubs meeting area. We met there for the first time in 1999 in July. The meeting was tagged with the name "Mojam".
The long and short of it was that the woods were very evenly matched and only 1 or 2 fps separated the top two bows (one a white wood, one a yellow wood).
I think the main thing I got from it was that design, moisture content and good tillering were much more important than wood selection.
I think any testing we do will likely improve our ability to get closer to that perfect bow. But like I stated earlier, I think our ancestors did their testing over time. Time that was many times a life and death situation. I'm sure there were a number of 'perfect bows' made back then. Problem is a lot of that information never got passed on to us.

Offline Bogaman

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Re: to perfect?
« Reply #19 on: April 15, 2014, 10:33:51 am »
On a further note; I got into this because I like working with wood, and I receive most of my pleasure in making an efficient and nice looking bow. Getting closer thru trial and error to a more perfect bow. Although I start to get turned off a little when someone tries to drag a bunch of high tech stuff into the conversation.

Offline George Tsoukalas

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Re: to perfect?
« Reply #20 on: April 15, 2014, 11:06:49 am »
This is my hobby. I am an amateur so take my remarks as such. I have never strived for perfection. I'm not sure I know what the perfect bow should be like.

I look at the stave and try to get the best bow possible from that piece of wood.
The thing that bothers me on my builds is to have  finishing imperfections so I spend some enjoyable time sanding and removing nicks. I call it fussing.

As I age (65) bows do not come as quickly as they did when I was in my 40's.
I just enjoy whatever time I have with draw knife in hand.

Perfection is an interesting concept.
How can we quest for it when we don't know what it is?

So I guess I need to define what I look for in a  bow that I made. The bow should be quiet. Smooth all the way back. The arrow should be away with a quiet push. Good cast as shown in flight.
Sorry for the rambling.
Good thread.
Jawge
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If you ain't breakin' you ain't makin!

Offline paoliguy

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Re: to perfect?
« Reply #21 on: April 15, 2014, 01:32:31 pm »
I struggle with my own definition of perfection. I see many bows that look "perfect" to me that come in all sorts of designs, styles, and materials. There's just something about the craftsmanship that feels "perfect". If the bowyer put his best effort into the bow and it reflects his personality and design intent it's probably pretty close to "perfect"? I guess I'll never know for sure what perfection is, I'm pretty sure I'll never make a perfect bow (or anything else), but I plan on enjoying making every single one; that in itself feels kind of ... "perfect" to me.

Great thread BTW!

Offline Badger

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Re: to perfect?
« Reply #22 on: April 15, 2014, 01:33:55 pm »
  As Jawge says, how do we know if we build a perfect bow if we don't know what perfect is. Looking at bows from the 1920's through the 1940's it is clear to me that we had to first catch up to them. Those guys knew what made a bow tick. They understould skinny tips, reflex, deflex, recurves and everything else we are doing today. I think heat treating might be the only real addition our group has made.

   My belief is that the more I understand about the wood the more challenging a build becomes. I play around with the high tec stuff at the desk, but when I get ready to build a bow its all be feel and sight just like everyone else.

    Each style has a slightly different potential, some focus on higher energy storage, some focus more on efficiency, some focus on light arrows and some on heavy arrows. There is nothing untraditional about knowing as much as you can about something you are trying to build. Once we decide what we want to build the skill comes in with our ability to monitor and control the condition of the wood as we tiller it out to final draw weight. They have done it this way for thousands of years and thats why they call it a craft or a trade, there simply are some things to learn to become accomplished at it.

Offline PatM

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Re: to perfect?
« Reply #23 on: April 15, 2014, 01:48:24 pm »
  Steve,
  Heat treating was mentioned in an article in Ye Sylvan Archer in the 30s. It was used to "rejuvenate" old yew bows. Hard to say if they also used it to induce reflex or just use it from the get- go in new bows but they certainly did use it.
 It was when an excerpt from that article was re-printed in PA in 2002 that set it all in motion again.

Offline Parnell

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Re: to perfect?
« Reply #24 on: April 15, 2014, 01:55:11 pm »
I think I'd rather have "perfect" arrows than a bow!  Fun conversation...
1’—>1’

Offline Onebowonder

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Re: to perfect?
« Reply #25 on: April 15, 2014, 02:01:56 pm »
Perfection is purely a definitional sort of thing, ...and I adjust that definition everytime I pick up my tools!  For me, it mostly relates to the bow surviving to shoot my personal standard of 300 plus arrows during shoot-in without blowing up.  If I attach too many demands to this otherwise fun and creative process, it feels like I can drain the better part of the joy out of the whole affair. 

I'm not doing this to feed myself or fend off enemies, though it's nice to imagine that I possibly could do so ::) >:D, so the pressure is off somewhat.  This fact allows me to experiement and 'play' with the process more than I otherwise would be able to do.  I'm sure that if the king's agent were coming 'round to evaluate my quality of workmanship and determine whether or not to re-approve my licensure or guild standing, it would be a very different process for me.

As it is, the greatest pressure I have right now, is making a give away bow for a friend on these forums or the kids at church.  ...which is more than plenty I assure you!

OneBow

Offline Del the cat

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Re: to perfect?
« Reply #26 on: April 15, 2014, 02:51:44 pm »
Perfection is a movable feast depending on what you are trying to acheive!
It depends on the stave, the time the tools, the design you are maybe messing with.
If I'm doing an experimental bow, then finish doesn't come into it, unless maybe it works out.
If I'm trying to make a bow in one hour then the time is the criteria.
Sometimes it's the look, sometimes it's the speed. sometimes it's the draw weight t'was ever thus.
Sometimes it's just the humour!
See what I'm working on now... The Monkey Bow...
Dunno why it's called that ::)
Del
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Online Buckeye Guy

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Re: to perfect?
« Reply #27 on: April 15, 2014, 03:00:34 pm »
You might want to leave it a tad stiff there Del
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Offline Del the cat

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Re: to perfect?
« Reply #28 on: April 15, 2014, 03:06:42 pm »
You might want to leave it a tad stiff there Del
Whoop whoop ah ah ah!
That's Monkey for:-
"Its just above the grip, the arrow pass will be alongside the mouth so he's spittin' 'em out"  :laugh:
Del
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Online Pat B

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Re: to perfect?
« Reply #29 on: April 15, 2014, 03:09:09 pm »
That's perfect, Del.  ;)
Make the most of all that comes and the least of all that goes!    Pat Brennan  Brevard, NC