red elm rpi

[Josh B]

I was just sitting here in Roswell NM waiting on a wrecker.....again.   I decided to do a little finish work on a red elm kids five-curve.  It struck me a while ago that the ring structure on my local red elm was a lot different than the red elm I got from Soy in Mn.  The stuff I have local is very dense and tight ringed with almost no earlywood.  Most of it is 40 rpi plus.  Its great bow wood, but what I was wondering is if its normal to grow like mine does or is the thicker ringed stuff more the norm?  I took a pic of the belly of the bow I'm working on to show the rings.  In the zoomed in pic, there's 3/16" of thickness taper on the part of the limb in the pic.  I couldn't get the rings to show up on a side shot.  I know that there is usually a high variance in ring count in a species depending on growing conditions, but every red elm I have cut around home is tight ringed like this.   What's it like elsewhere?  Josh

[PEARL DRUMS]

Its a nordern ting trucker. All the elm Ive cut and used from up here had micro rings and is dense as ever.

[Josh B]

I appreciate the reply Pearly.  Lattitude can't be all of it though.  Soy is several hundred miles North of me and his elm has fat rings.  I thought it might be precipitation, but you have no shortage of moisture in your part of the world.  Hopefully some others will chime in.  Here's some of soy's red elm.  His whole red elm stash looks like this. Josh

[PEARL DRUMS]

Elms die fast up here so I can only assume the light and water intake is lesser being they are understory tree's. Just a guess though. Slow growth = thin rings.

[wapiti1997]

PD is spot on.

Tree growth is more dictated by the crown or leaves than anything.  They are the "solar panels" that make food for the tree.  My experience is a tree that has a full crown or it's crown is part of the overall canopy of the woods will have wide growth rings until it matures and is at the end of life and slows growth.

This is why foresters do timber stand improvement.  Removing competing trees of crop trees to allow crown expansion thus increasing wood production.

Now, the other consideration is soils and water.  Some soils are able to retain water better and support trees, some are thin and poor and only support grasses with scattered "stunted" trees..  These will have thin rings too, even though the crown may be full..

Red elm and American elm are typically found more in riparian areas (near streams).  When they grow "off site" they can and tend to be much slower growing.  Black walnut is similar in that it will be knotty and slow growing on a dry ridge compared to a bottomland.

[Josh B]

Makes sense to me.  Thanks fellas!  Now that I think about, I don't drop an elm unless its 8" or smaller in diameter. They're as tall as the old trees, but pretty narrow crown.  Those give me enough of a fit to split into staves.  I can't imagine trying to split up one of those old growth 3 footers.  I don't think that I've ever dropped one of those monsters for any reason.  Thanks again!  Josh

[Dvshunter]

Josh I cut and split some monster elms about two years ago I think. Pretty decent rings. If you look up some of my old posts you may be able to find the video of me splitting those hogs.

[PatM]

Not much rhyme or reason to American elm growth up here in Ontario. I have cut trees growing about 25 yards from each other that were in virtually identical growing conditions and one was 16 years old and about 6 inches in diameter and the other was the same diameter and  at least 50 years old.
 

[Josh B]

Thanks for the info Pat
Lol!  I remember that Dave.  That is definitely a good example of working smarter, not harder!  Josh

[wapiti1997]

Canopy dominance will absolutely cause trees growing in close proximity to have different rpi.

[dwardo]

PD is spot on.

Tree growth is more dictated by the crown or leaves than anything.  They are the "solar panels" that make food for the tree.  My experience is a tree that has a full crown or it's crown is part of the overall canopy of the woods will have wide growth rings until it matures and is at the end of life and slows growth.

This is why foresters do timber stand improvement.  Removing competing trees of crop trees to allow crown expansion thus increasing wood production.

Now, the other consideration is soils and water.  Some soils are able to retain water better and support trees, some are thin and poor and only support grasses with scattered "stunted" trees..  These will have thin rings too, even though the crown may be full..

Red elm and American elm are typically found more in riparian areas (near streams).  When they grow "off site" they can and tend to be much slower growing.  Black walnut is similar in that it will be knotty and slow growing on a dry ridge compared to a bottomland.

Thanks for that explanation. I have cut Wych elms just meters from each other and they had completely different characteristics. The best elm by far has been the smaller canopy tighter ringed stuff. The larger ringed out in the open elm was much lighter in weight and the early growth chalky and more of it.