Need some help on going about this birch sapling

[Bitterguy]

Are you in the city or a ssmaller town?
I bet allong the road and highways there are plenty of saplings with in 20' of the road.
I got a book from the library about trees in my state and started learning the bark and leaves when I started this obsession.
Knowing the trees really can prevent a lot of wasted time and effort and get you a good bow sooner.
You can also look up your state wildlife agency or whatever and they may have trees listed as native and invasive. Some invasive species are unwanted and people are happy to let you get at them 
Good luck with the wood BG,
Marco

Central PA. Not exactly in farmland but right next to it and my hs has pretty decently sized woodlands that have been sitting behind it and they are doing litteraly nothing with it and its not like I'm clearcutting the dang thing haha

[DarkSoul]

If you've cut a tree that is so obviously dead thinking it was alive, I'm kinda worried. Please do your homework (read the Trad. Bowyer's Bible vol 1!!!) before you cut down the entire forest. That wood is junk and only good as firewood. A birch sapling would be very, very low in my wishlist anyway. Birch is not a true bowwood, but a borderline bowwood. It is very touchy in tension, so a sapling this small a diameter is likely to fail.
Furthermore, NEVER de-bark round logs and then put them to dry! It causes severe drying checks, often within hours after removing the bark. You need to reduce the round log/sapling first to near the pith, and then remove the bark. It's OK to do it the other way around as well, but you need to both remove the bark and reduce the stave down to near the pith, on the same day.

[Bitterguy]

I did my research and found it to be  true bow wood "All birches are diffuse-porous. Somewhat brittle in tension. As with many other similar-density woods, a light rawhide backing makes birch as durable as heavier woods. " if need be I can have my attempt at heat treating or paper backing it. With enough work pretty much anything can be made into a bow wood (did you see ryoon's poplar bow post? I was blown away!), of course that work may be harder for me since I have only made a singular bow but I'm always accepting of a challenge! My bowyers bible says he take the bark off right as he harvest it too!

My confusion being out of the way I have two more sapling and they're alive!!!!!!


Yet again they're birch:


And Oak:


Im thinking about starting with the oak so I have a more forgiving wood to learn how to work around knots and just work with natural woods in general! They're both 2" in diameter. The same question arises as the two pieces of firewood.
 Do I need to seal the tips right now or only after I rough them out?
Should I split them or just get to carvin?

[southsoundjeff]

Most all the wood I make bows out of, I seal the ends with white glue or house paint, and set them off to the side (horizontally) for a minimum of a month before I attempt to work them into a bow.
I had good luck with a Hazel sapling about 2" in diameter once. Didn't bother sealing the ends, and started carving a bow out of it 3 weeks later. Left the bark on it, and tillered it more-or-less like an english longbow, with a rounded belly. Of course, it had a good crown on the back, since the bark was still intact.
As far as I know, the bow is still in use, at least 3 years later. It came out over 60 pounds at 26", and was about 74" in length.
Your mileage may differ.....
I've had other wood that I sealed and left for a year, and they split to unusable scrap an hour after I took the bark off.
Bow-building is as much art, as a science. I don't have experience with raw saplings of either oak or birch, so I can't help you there.....

[bubby]

birch will make you a bow, I've used paper birch as a backer

[DarkSoul]

I did my research and found it to be  true bow wood "All birches are diffuse-porous. Somewhat brittle in tension. As with many other similar-density woods, a light rawhide backing makes birch as durable as heavier woods. " if need be I can have my attempt at heat treating or paper backing it. With enough work pretty much anything can be made into a bow wood (did you see ryoon's poplar bow post? I was blown away!), of course that work may be harder for me since I have only made a singular bow but I'm always accepting of a challenge! My bowyers bible says he take the bark off right as he harvest it too!

My confusion being out of the way I have two more sapling and they're alive!!!!!!

(...)

Im thinking about starting with the oak so I have a more forgiving wood to learn how to work around knots and just work with natural woods in general! They're both 2" in diameter. The same question arises as the two pieces of firewood.
 Do I need to seal the tips right now or only after I rough them out?
Should I split them or just get to carvin?

Birch is stated 'somewhat brittle in tension' which means the back of the bow is best left flat. A 2" diameter sapling has a very high crown, and will therefore not be a good candidate for a wood that is weak in tension. You can either back the bow (but paper is very lousy backing and merely functions to keep a tiny splinter down, so you want something more durable than that), or de-crown the back of the bow. De-crowning is a viable option, but not as easy as it may sound. Read about it in the trad. bowyer's bible vol. 2.
It's nice that you're willing to "accept a challange", but are you also willing to accept a failure? The chances of success with a real bowwood such as hickory, elm, ash or maple are just much higher than with a borderline bowwood such as a birch sapling. Is your first of second attempt at a bow really the best time to accept a challenge, or would it be better to find a challenge in your fifth or twentieth bow? Both pieces of wood look at least much better than the previous pieces. What length are they? Not perfect, because there is some curve in them and because I can see some knots. There are always much more knots in saplings than you would expect. They're hidden underneath the bark. But both staves have the potential to make a good bow. The oak is much better than the birch so I would start with the oak.
You ALWAYS seal the ends of freshly cut wood. No questions about it. As soon as possible after cutting.
With 2" in diameter, they are too small to split them in half. Each sapling can make only one bow anyway, because there just isn't enough wood for two bows. Select which side of the tree to use: least knots, some reflex preferred, no heat correcting if possible. Then cut away the bad half of the tree with a drawknife, hatchet or bandsaw. Then remove the bark.

[PEARL DRUMS]

I don't see a birch tree? That silver colored tree is a young shagbark. Id bet on it. The darker one isn't birch either. Use the shagbark and nobody gets hurt.

[adb]

Doesn't look like an birch I've ever seen either.

[Bitterguy]

I found pin oak leaves aroung the sapling maybe they were from a nearby tree.

Here's the rings of the "oak":


And the rings of the "Birch":


Edit: I forgot to mention that i don't have a drawknife/bandsaw/hatchet and my old man isn't willing to provide fundings. I do however have and axe and kitchen knifes. Could I sharpen those and use them in subsitute?

[burchett.donald]

 OK, grab that axe and bust her down the middle, rough the profile out then remove bark without violating the back. Seal the ends and back...Then let it dry a couple a weeks in the house. Wear gloves with that kitchen knife and be careful. Does your dad have a rasp?

[BOWMAN53]

you can buy a hatchet from wallmart for $4 bucks.

[Bitterguy]

My mom said she'd be willing to pick me up a hatchet when she goes grocery shopping later today. So until she gets back I want to try and figure out all my dimensions.

 Its 1 5/8" at the top and 2 1/2" at the bottom do I just even them out to a uniform size when I rough it out or do I get it down to a dimensioned out non tillered bow?
For dimensions I was thinking of a pyramid 75" long and about 1 1/8" thick at about 45# with a 1 1/2" wide and 4" long handle, 2" long and wide fades, 33 1/2" limbs with 1/2" nocks, would those work?

[DuBois]

I don't see a birch tree? That silver colored tree is a young shagbark. Id bet on it. The darker one isn't birch either. Use the shagbark and nobody gets hurt.

I agree. It looks like shagbark and the other resembles buckthorn a little.
If that is what it is then you have found 2 good woods and surely there are others.
Listen to these guys and they will steer you in the right direction.

[Bitterguy]

I don't see a birch tree? That silver colored tree is a young shagbark. Id bet on it. The darker one isn't birch either. Use the shagbark and nobody gets hurt.

I agree. It looks like shagbark and the other resembles buckthorn a little.
If that is what it is then you have found 2 good woods and surely there are others.
Listen to these guys and they will steer you in the right direction.

Oh i know they will. I'm still thankful towards pearl for taking me through my first bow step by step and puttin up with all my crap 

Edit: also i was thinking about my handle and does and arrow rest have to be in the exact center of the bow or would the arrow rest being where the top of my hand would hold the bow (about an inch off of center) be fine?