Author Topic: For better limb tiller:  (Read 9763 times)

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Offline Weylin

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Re: For better limb tiller:
« Reply #15 on: February 21, 2014, 11:20:49 am »




The goal no matter what the limbs are doing along the way is to have equal strain on both limbs at full draw.

This is my goal. I try to keep it as simple as that. It feels easy to trick my self into other conclusions while I'm making the bow so I have to keep reminding myself this as I go along.

Offline Josh B

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Re: For better limb tiller:
« Reply #16 on: February 21, 2014, 11:21:21 am »

Got way too deep for my pea brain! Ill just keep doing what I do for whatever reasons I do it!


If it ain't broke, don't fix it ..right? Lol!   Once again, I think I contributed more confusion than clarity.   Sorry bout that.  Josh

Offline PEARL DRUMS

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Re: For better limb tiller:
« Reply #17 on: February 21, 2014, 11:23:08 am »
So why do we add reflex to bows if it slows them down and draws power away?
Only when the last tree has died and the last river has been poisoned and the last fish has been caught will we realize we cannot eat money.

Offline Josh B

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Re: For better limb tiller:
« Reply #18 on: February 21, 2014, 11:25:13 am »
Because it stores more energy.  Josh

Offline PEARL DRUMS

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Re: For better limb tiller:
« Reply #19 on: February 21, 2014, 11:26:17 am »
Now Im confused..............for real....
Only when the last tree has died and the last river has been poisoned and the last fish has been caught will we realize we cannot eat money.

Offline Josh B

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Re: For better limb tiller:
« Reply #20 on: February 21, 2014, 11:33:17 am »
I get back on this in an hr or so.  Josh

Offline PEARL DRUMS

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Re: For better limb tiller:
« Reply #21 on: February 21, 2014, 11:36:27 am »
Im unsure how the stronger limb can have less energy. Seems contradictive to me. Energy=strength in my mind.
Only when the last tree has died and the last river has been poisoned and the last fish has been caught will we realize we cannot eat money.

Offline George Tsoukalas

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Re: For better limb tiller:
« Reply #22 on: February 21, 2014, 12:09:03 pm »
Comstock's smarter than I am but I am more stubborn...stubborn Greek. Been called that more than a few times.

Reflex on the bottom.:)

Funny how you can ask a simple question from a group of experienced bowyers and get several different answers.

I think of it this way...

My bottoms limbs take a little more set but 1/4 to 1/2" so whyso that little bit of reflex compensates for that.

Jawge
Set Happens!
If you ain't breakin' you ain't makin!

Offline George Tsoukalas

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Re: For better limb tiller:
« Reply #23 on: February 21, 2014, 12:10:40 pm »
I should mention that starting with even limbs bottom takes more set in my bows.
Set Happens!
If you ain't breakin' you ain't makin!

Offline dwardo

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Re: For better limb tiller:
« Reply #24 on: February 21, 2014, 12:13:41 pm »
I get the gun out and make them both the same  >:D
Saves on brain time.

Offline Badger

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Re: For better limb tiller:
« Reply #25 on: February 21, 2014, 12:18:39 pm »
  I never really gave it any thought, when it comes time to choose top or bottom limb I just choose based on whatever I am looking at that moment.

Offline Josh B

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Re: For better limb tiller:
« Reply #26 on: February 21, 2014, 12:22:37 pm »
The key is the length of the power stroke.  The limbs don't know if they're reflexed, flat or deflexed.  They only know how far you bend them.  With 4" of reflex and a 28" draw, your limbs are under the same strain as flat limbs  being drawn to 32".   What that means is your storing the energy of 32" draw bow.  Longer power stroke.   You do however lose a little bit of that energy by the actual shorter stroke on the reflexed bow.  Meaning a flat profiled 50#@32" bow is transferring more energy to the arrow than the 4" reflexed50#@28" bow.  Likewise, the 4" reflexed 50#@28" is storing and transferring more energy to the arrow than a 50#@28" flat profiled bow.  But there's even more to it than that.  To get the reflexed bow tillered to 50#@28", you will have to remove more wood than you would from a flat profiled 50#@28" bow.  Resulting in less mass.  Strength is only one factor in the energy storage equation.  Strength and energy storage are not synonymous.  Josh

Offline Poggins

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Re: For better limb tiller:
« Reply #27 on: February 21, 2014, 12:25:52 pm »
I go with what works for me ( seems most of the wood I have is way to twisty and wavy , the big reason I'm chasing good osage wood this year , took off today to go after another good tree).
I have all four volumes of TBB and when you read them things change from the first to the last as more bowyers tried different styles .
I don't have enough bows under my belt to contribute to this but a lot of good reading and lessons here , thanks.

Offline Gaust

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Re: For better limb tiller:
« Reply #28 on: February 21, 2014, 01:06:08 pm »
I, too, have enjoyed reading the comments.  Soaking it all in.  Thanks.

Makes me not want to cut in an arrow shelf, however.   
George

blackhawk

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Re: For better limb tiller:
« Reply #29 on: February 21, 2014, 01:57:29 pm »
The key is the length of the power stroke.  The limbs don't know if they're reflexed, flat or deflexed.  They only know how far you bend them.  With 4" of reflex and a 28" draw, your limbs are under the same strain as flat limbs  being drawn to 32".   What that means is your storing the energy of 32" draw bow.  Longer power stroke.   You do however lose a little bit of that energy by the actual shorter stroke on the reflexed bow.  Meaning a flat profiled 50#@32" bow is transferring more energy to the arrow than the 4" reflexed50#@28" bow.  Likewise, the 4" reflexed 50#@28" is storing and transferring more energy to the arrow than a 50#@28" flat profiled bow.  But there's even more to it than that.  To get the reflexed bow tillered to 50#@28", you will have to remove more wood than you would from a flat profiled 50#@28" bow.  Resulting in less mass.  Strength is only one factor in the energy storage equation.  Strength and energy storage are not synonymous.  Josh


But when now adding reflex one should design the bow wider and add more surface area to the wood to take the strain and still have healthy wood...which adds mass,and in most cases if done correctly it'll actually have more mass than the straight limbed bow,and not less as you stated it would....

I've always put stronger limb on bottom,and that's worked well for me after many bows,but what doni know?