Author Topic: Norse bows?  (Read 2815 times)

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JacksonCash

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Norse bows?
« on: February 07, 2014, 10:19:00 am »
Anyone know much about the types of bows that would have been used by the Danes, Swedes, Norwegians or other scandinavians during the pre-viking or viking period? I've heard a few different accounts, from typical ELB to Turkish/steppe style horn bows.

Offline WillS

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Re: Norse bows?
« Reply #1 on: February 07, 2014, 11:30:12 am »
There was the Balinderry bow, also known as the "Viking Bow" which was pretty much identical (in dimensions and wood species (European Yew)) to the Mary Rose bows, so it can be fairly safely assumed that at least somebody was shooting longbows in the 150lb range.  I don't know a huge amount about it, but it's worth looking through Hugh Soar's articles/books as he wrote about it in Secrets Of The English Warbow. 

Also, if you're on Facebook it's worth joining the group "Archery - Selfmade Equipment as there are quite a few excellent bowyers on there from Scandinavia and other parts of Europe who are replicating bows from that region and time period.

Offline Bryce

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Re: Norse bows?
« Reply #2 on: February 07, 2014, 01:38:25 pm »
Could it be possible that the Vikings stole the English bows when they raided?
Clatskanie, Oregon

Offline adb

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Re: Norse bows?
« Reply #3 on: February 07, 2014, 01:41:58 pm »
Likely the other way around. I don't think the 'English' longbow we think of, like those used at their zenith in The Hundred Years war era existed in the 10th or 11th centuries. The Norse had yew 'longbows' at that time.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2014, 02:02:08 pm by adb »

Offline WillS

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Re: Norse bows?
« Reply #4 on: February 07, 2014, 01:44:42 pm »
I think Adam's spot on about it being the other way round, but Hugh Soar says that the Balinderry bow was 10th century.

Here's a brief excerpt of what he wrote about it in the Secrets Of The English Warbow

Quote from: Hugh Soar
if this is truly typical of contemporary Viking weaponry, then the bows in use at Maldon in AD 991 are put into perspective, and doubt may be cast upon the belief that weapons of that period were inferior in draw weight to those of later times.

It was recovered in 1932 from an Irish crannog.  It's 75 inches overall, and straight.  It's dimensions are almost identical to the average size of the Mary Rose bows.  It's 1.6 inches wide, 1.25inches deep and made of yew, with sap and heartwood in proportion.  These dimensions are the same (If perhaps slightly wider) as the typical Mary Rose warbow.   It's half a millennium older than the Mary Rose bows, and yet essentially the same bow.

I don't know anything about bows from this period at all, but I hope this helps a bit? Or at least directs you somewhere to find more information.

JacksonCash

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Re: Norse bows?
« Reply #5 on: February 07, 2014, 02:02:29 pm »
Definitely helps out, I appreciate the info and will definite look up the reading you suggested.
I'm asking because I want to acquire some Norse weaponry/armor, mostly to decorate with, but I want everything to be functional. I've got a shield build planned, and the bow will maybe happen (though I've only done the two, don't know if I want to drop the cash on some yew just yet). Then it will be trying to figure out how to make a nice axe.

Offline Bryce

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Re: Norse bows?
« Reply #6 on: February 07, 2014, 02:16:52 pm »
Likely the other way around. I don't think the 'English' longbow we think of, like those used at their zenith in The Hundred Years war era existed in the 10th or 11th centuries. The Norse had yew 'longbows' at that time.

That does make more sense.
Clatskanie, Oregon

Offline WillS

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Re: Norse bows?
« Reply #7 on: February 07, 2014, 02:17:08 pm »
I would imagine you could use ash, elm or hazel and make a bow in the same draw weight range (100 - 150) while keeping it safely historically accurate.   I think they would have used whatever indigenous woods they could get their hands on.

As a sidenote (sort of, it's still relevant...ish) I was chatting to Jaro Petrina last night (undisputably one of the best self-warbow makers using ash and other white woods) and he reckons white wood bows were far more common than we think.  The trouble with whitewood (especially ash) in heavy draw weights is that any moisture or humidity can affect them really badly.  He recommends working with extremely clean, dry hands as even sweat can cause issues with the very heavy bows if you're using ash.  Anyway, point is, his theory is that commoners including farmers, workers, basic soldiers etc would have far more likely had ash warbows to practice and train with as they would have been cheap and quickly made.  They would be hung over a fireplace when not in use to keep the moisture at a minimum until they were used.  These bows were probably more common on the battlefield than yew bows which would have been expensive and took slightly longer to make.  Yew isn't as finicky when it comes to moisture so for long campaigns and invasions they would possibly have been used, but I can see the logic that a good, honest farmer or soldier would have used a whitewood (meane wood) bow over a yew bow for everyday use.  He's actually bringing out a very heavy article about that exact thing soon.

I guess it depends what you're trying to end up with - high-end expensive looking armour and equipment that would have been issued to house guards and upper class soldiers, or the tattered, worn, beaten and repaired weapons and tools that you'd find amongst mercenaries or freelancers.  I know which I would rather have as decoration, but then I really like the look of "used" weapons.

I think a good chunky ash or hazel bow (go for something like 40mmX36mm in the handle and follow the basic Mary Rose Warbow shape - parallel for 30cm each side of the center, then tapering to temporary tips at 1" wide, before shaping the final 8" during tillering to 1/2" tips so you end up with two tapers along each limb) made to look old and weathered with lots of various woodstains and dents and knocks that don't affect the back of the bow so as not to risk it breaking would look amazing amongst other hand made Norse items.

Offline Bryce

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Re: Norse bows?
« Reply #8 on: February 07, 2014, 02:33:35 pm »
From what I've read in other articles. Ash was a more common bow wood. Which conforms to you friends logic.

Not just in Europe. Even here in North America. Seems to be a very versitile wood.
Clatskanie, Oregon

JacksonCash

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Re: Norse bows?
« Reply #9 on: February 07, 2014, 02:37:26 pm »
I am definitely with you on the "used" weapons. I want the stuff to look well-loved. I hadn't thought about Ash, that is a really interesting idea. I'd probably shoot for a bit below actual war-bow weight though, as I'm not up to trying to shoot something like that in! Maybe some day, but not quite yet.

Offline Bryce

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Re: Norse bows?
« Reply #10 on: February 07, 2014, 02:47:14 pm »
I have one ash stave. And now I have Viking fever again.........TO THE SHOP!!!!!

I'm sure the Norse used elm and other woods.
What are the demensions for a Norse longbow?
They exactly the same as a MR? Or slightly wider/longer?
Clatskanie, Oregon

JacksonCash

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Re: Norse bows?
« Reply #11 on: February 07, 2014, 02:49:06 pm »
Lucky you! I'm short the stave and the shop! Can't wait to see what you come up with.

Offline WillS

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Re: Norse bows?
« Reply #12 on: February 07, 2014, 03:16:40 pm »
I have one ash stave. And now I have Viking fever again.........TO THE SHOP!!!!!

I'm sure the Norse used elm and other woods.
What are the demensions for a Norse longbow?
They exactly the same as a MR? Or slightly wider/longer?

Take what I say with a pinch of salt - I'm nowhere near as experienced as other guys in making ash warbows, but as far as I know you wanna go wider and flatter with ash than yew. 

The cross section ends up looking like a flat oval - as if you take a perfect circle and just flatten it loads.  A proper ash warbow won't look like a yew warbow unless you hit really heavy weights.  For example Jaro posted a beautiful 160# ash bow on the EWBS forum a while back which was basically identical to the Mary Rose dimensions, but if you want to go for a more sensible weight, 40x30 is a good place to start.

Basically yes - wider and longer with whitewood warbows.