How to align the stiff side of a shaft to the bow? Also, a spining question...

[toomanyknots]

I was just wondering how you guys do it. I have read online, at least for carbon arrow shooters, a lot of them align the stiff side to the cook feather (or vane for them probably) so that the stiff side is aligned horizontally to the bow. Now, it ain't always possibly, or really it ain't never possible for me to do this because I always do self nocks, which need to be cut across not with the rings to avoid splitting. I guess I could buy little plastic nocks, but I just don't like those things too much,  . And my other question for the community is, if you have a shaft that say spines 35 on two opposide sides, and spines 45 on two other opposite sides (making a stiff and a weak side essentially), what do you say the shaft spines? 35 - 45???

[artcher1]

Are we talking dowels here?

[toomanyknots]

Are we talking dowels here?

No, I am talking about arrow shafts. Would dowels follow a different rule, due to crazy grain and run off?

[artcher1]

Arrow shafts can be dowels, or shoots such as hardwood of cane/boo. If you bought or round these out yourself then they are dowels. Side that goes against the bow is the side that references the spine value. For dowels, that would be the edge grain. If you have 10# difference from flat to edge grain then your wood isn't properly seasoned or you're getting out of round shafts..........Art

[JackCrafty]

I always put the weaker side of the arrow toward the bow (the opposite of what most people do) and label the spine with the lowest value(s).  I also determine the direction the arrow "wants" to bend (I learned this from the atlatl dart guys) and place the outside of this bend toward the bow, which also happens to be the weakest spine orientation in most cases (but not all cases).

I never worry about nock alignment in relation to grain orientation because I always wrap thread or sinew above the nock to prevent splitting.

The habit of constructing arrows with their weaknesses in mind has helped me to prevent breakage when shooting.  It also gives me a slight weight gain in the arrow shafts compared to other methods.

[toomanyknots]

Arrow shafts can be dowels, or shoots such as hardwood of cane/boo. If you bought or round these out yourself then they are dowels.

Oh, haha, sorry, I see what your saying. Sorry.

If you have 10# difference from flat to edge grain then your wood isn't properly seasoned or you're getting out of round shafts..........Art

Maybe, the shaft in question was a ash shaft turned out on a router, purchased from woodcraft initially.

I always put the weaker side of the arrow toward the bow (the opposite of what most people do) and label the spine with the lowest value(s).  I also determine the direction the arrow "wants" to bend (I learned this from the atlatl dart guys) and place the outside of this bend toward the bow, which also happens to be the weakest spine orientation in most cases (but not all cases).

I never worry about nock alignment in relation to grain orientation because I always wrap thread or sinew above the nock to prevent splitting.

The habit of constructing arrows with their weaknesses in mind has helped me to prevent breakage when shooting.  It also gives me a slight weight gain in the arrow shafts compared to other methods.

Sweet, will chew on that. Thank guys.

[artcher1]

Patrick, the dynamics of a bow and atlatl are totally different. No experience with the atlatl personally, but it's not hard to guess that orientation probably has something to do with hanging weight. Stiff side down to counter this?

With bows comes handles that we have to get around. Perfect world there would be no stiff/weak sides to deal with. But when it comes to the orientation of shoots arrows it's the total package of stiff/weak sides plus their idiosyncrasies, undulation, crooks, humps, bumps, kinks and what have you. The latter you deal with first in orienting the shaft, then orient stiff/weak sides. This may put the strong side against the bow or down on the shelf/hand. But the weak side should never go against the bow and/or hand.

Just for general information, we mauled over this subject in great length on the old PA board and this concept has been proven to many to be accurate over the years...........Art 

[JackCrafty]

I won't argue with you Art...  although it would be great fun.   

Disproving things that have been "accurate over the years" is also great fun.  I'll let my record stand, like in my flintknapping work, for example (I get funny looks and disbelief there too). That's all I will say. 

[artcher1]

Hey, if you're happy with your results Patrick, then I want to keep you that way! Cause I like them pretty rocks too! And I'm not very good at it, hint, hint, LOL!

[JackCrafty]

 

[Pappy]

I do like Art,but like has been said many times on lots of different stuff on this forum,more ways to skin a cat than one and if it makes you happy then It makes me happy.  For me I get better consistency by putting the stiff side to the bow, I check that first if I am cutting self nocks,then cut the nocks and wrap as Patrick said. The main thing I have found is to do a set all the same way what ever you decide.
 Pappy

[toomanyknots]

Thank you Pappy. I guess I'll try it out both ways, and go with what works for me,  . Thanks again guys!

[George Tsoukalas]

I always put the nock groove at right angles to the grain. I do that with self nocks and I used to do it with plastic.

I also align these >>> to point towards my hand when the arrow is in the shooting position. That way the arrow, if it breaks, will break up and away.

Jawge

[toomanyknots]

I always put the nock groove at right angles to the grain. I do that with self nocks and I used to do it with plastic.



Jawge

That's what I've been doing? Wouldn't that align the stiff side on the shaft to the bow anyway, because the stiff side is always to the side of the grain, not the face grain?

[artcher1]

I always put the nock groove at right angles to the grain. I do that with self nocks and I used to do it with plastic.



Jawge

That's what I've been doing? Wouldn't that align the stiff side on the shaft to the bow anyway, because the stiff side is always to the side of the grain, not the face grain?

I found that notion to be about a 50/50 correct TMK. So where does that leave you?  Well, do as George suggested if any ring run-out is present. Sometimes, you'll find arrows that just don't behave the way you would them to. Using nice straight grained material allows the option of different orientation of the shaft. That being said, I've found for the most part that the edge grain against the bow works just fine most of the time. It's those pesky trouble makers that need closer scrutiny ...........Art