Update on 120# yew warbow - I don't like to complain, but...

[Cameroo]

Now you've got a bow!  I was thinking the same as Mark.

This thread has been enjoyable to read and has helped motivate me to get moving on one of my own.  I'm just starting to tiller a heavy-weight from what I believe was white elm? Can't remember, will have to ask adb, as I got it a while back from a trade with him.  Up until now the heaviest bow I've made has been around 90 lbs, but I'm hoping for 110 or higher on this one.  It's roughed out at 80" long, and just a little more flexible than a cast iron frying pan.  It was close to pipe straight when I roughed it out almost a year ago, but has taken on a few wobbles since.  I think before proceeding I may give it a gentle heat treating and clamp it down to a 2x4 in the process to take out some of the curves.  Wish me luck I'll maybe start a build along once things get moving.

Yours is looking very good though, I hope she holds out for you!

[toomanyknots]

Miracle my ***,only some skillful and meticulous wood removal can make a chuck of wood do that! That look's beautiful Will! You deserve a damn beer!  Very nice, I think it looks like a gorgeous bend. Although I do agree with Marc about the right limb, just a tiny bit of scrapping and checking, working it in, checking, scrapping, checking, etc. Little by little is the best way, don't go to fast or get frustrated, that is the way to screw up. Looking damn fine.

[WillS]

Now you've got a bow!  I was thinking the same as Mark.

This thread has been enjoyable to read and has helped motivate me to get moving on one of my own.  I'm just starting to tiller a heavy-weight from what I believe was white elm? Can't remember, will have to ask adb, as I got it a while back from a trade with him.  Up until now the heaviest bow I've made has been around 90 lbs, but I'm hoping for 110 or higher on this one.  It's roughed out at 80" long, and just a little more flexible than a cast iron frying pan.  It was close to pipe straight when I roughed it out almost a year ago, but has taken on a few wobbles since.  I think before proceeding I may give it a gentle heat treating and clamp it down to a 2x4 in the process to take out some of the curves.  Wish me luck I'll maybe start a build along once things get moving.

Yours is looking very good though, I hope she holds out for you!

Thanks! I wish you all the best with yours! Stick a thread up - there's nothing like getting advice from numerous pairs of experienced eyes.  This thread alone has taught me more from one bow than I've learned from all the others I've made.   Can't thank everybody enough for all the input and help, it's been amazing.

Miracle my ***,only some skillful and meticulous wood removal can make a chuck of wood do that! That look's beautiful Will! You deserve a damn beer!  Very nice, I think it looks like a gorgeous bend. Although I do agree with Marc about the right limb, just a tiny bit of scrapping and checking, working it in, checking, scrapping, checking, etc. Little by little is the best way, don't go to fast or get frustrated, that is the way to screw up. Looking damn fine.

Haha! Cheers dude.  This bow has been literally the most unpleasant thing I've ever worked on - I've never been so frustrated in my life I don't think.  But I guess we've all been there - bows seem to have a tendency to go that way.  Still, I'm KINDA looking forward to that relief when this thing hits 32" and doesn't go bang.  Thanks for all your help mate.

[adb]

They're not all easy Will! Sometimes a bow will fight you the whole way. I've had a few. That being said, your bow is coming, but the outer third of the right limb needs to bend more.

[WillS]

Thanks Adam! 

[toomanyknots]

Haha! Cheers dude.  This bow has been literally the most unpleasant thing I've ever worked on - I've never been so frustrated in my life I don't think.  But I guess we've all been there - bows seem to have a tendency to go that way.  Still, I'm KINDA looking forward to that relief when this thing hits 32" and doesn't go bang.  Thanks for all your help mate.

Yes, do get the right limb to come around before you hit 32". Just little by little, and exercise it a lot to work the limb in after removing material.

[Del the cat]

Hmmm.
All the following is just my opinion... feel free to throw tins of tuna at me .
All well and good saying the right tip looks stiff, but if it started out with reflex then it's already bending as much as the other tip.
Its tricky to measure the deflection at a point.
Maybe tape a bit of arrow shaft or some such to the limbs at 10" from the tip, extending right out to the tip* (mark on the shaft where the tip reaches).
Measure the gap between shaft and tip at unstrung, braced and drawn.
That way you'll see which limb tip is actually flexing most.
Or maybe tape a bit of stiff card at the 10" point extending along the far edge of the limb (against the wall), you could draw the tip curve on it.

This also illustrates why it's better to have your tiller rig with the bow fixed, you can chalk the bow curve onto the wall and see how it looks, at various deflections.

*Tape it down solid at the 10" point only so that is the reference. Might be easier to tape it to the side of the bow, maybe flatten the shaft so it sits down tight and solid at that point.
The test may show nothing or be too inconsistent, difficult to measure, but it would be interesting to see.
Alternatively stick strain gauges every 3" and wire it all up to an umpteen channel chart recorder
Failing that, weaken the right tip until it breaks, then go back a bit
Del

[WillS]

And there was me thinking that I overthought bow making...!

I think it could move a little more, as I know the unbraced shape fairly well at this point and it's moving a lot more than it was, but the stiff looking section is still a tad longer than it needs to be.  It starts out (unbraced) with a gentle slope into reflex, then kicks about 5" from the tip into almost recurve territory on a mini scale.  I'm under no illusions that the very tip isn't going to do a whole lot more bending but I'm gonna get a bit more of that limb going still.

I think (hope) that just bringing the final profile taper down to the right shape at the tip will coerce that last third into doing what it should be doing.  This has been really interesting regarding actually seeing how a limb is bending, versus just blindly plugging away to get the "perfect" tiller - something that always used to result in my bows coming in too light! 

I like the idea of using something to physically measure how much each tip is bending though, so perhaps the card method will work. 

Thanks Del.  I may resort to the last option as well. 

[WillS]

Dilemma time.  This bow is way too heavy for me at the moment - no idea what it's full draw weight is as I'm not there yet but it's clearly above my comfort zone.  It's also the only bow I have that's suitable for the upcoming warbow meet in March so... Do I risk taking it down quite a bit in weight, or leave it the way it is (once it's finished) as a nice heavy bow to eventually work up to?  It doesn't look like I'll be on top of it within the next month or so.

I've no interest in buying a bow, as I got into this hobby purely on the basis that I would be making everything myself, so if I decide to reduce the weight, will taking wood off all over affect the tiller much and land me back at square one, or is it safe provided I keep everything even? 

I've never been in a situation where a bow I've made was too heavy...!

[Del the cat]

Neither!
You find out what thebow's weight is first!
You also need to have some idea of what your maximum comfortable draw length is. The "everyone can draw 32" idea and all bows shall be weighed at 32" draw is madness... the most I can get with any vague aim is about 31". If yoy build a bow for 32" draw but only shoot it at 30" it is carrying extra mass won't perform to it's full potential.
What do you draw at the moment? That will give you some idea of what is acheivable.
Some exercises every day and pracitce will soon get you up in draw weight.
I shot 36 3D targets yesterday with a47# bow and I was tiring at the end of it, yet, with some practice and exercise I can ramp up to 100#.
STEP AWAY FROM THE BOW
Del

[WillS]

I'm quite comfortable at 32" - all of my arrows are cut to 32" and I draw to the shoulder every time.  I'm more or less on top of 100 - 115# but I can't get this bow past 12"!  So far it's shown me that it's around 100 at 20" which is of course far too heavy if my target weight is 120.

Trouble is, until I'm happy with the tiller where it is (between 14" and 20") I'm not gonna be drawing it to 32" just to find the final weight!  It's taken quite enough set already

[Del the cat]

100# at 20" asuming a 6" brace gives 100/14 which is 7# per inch which would give 7x(32-6) at 32" which is 182#
I think you really need to be working with a scale!
So yes, you'd better take a mm off the whole belly and re-weigh it!
Del
(I thought you'd just bought a scale... or was that someone else? I dunno... wha'eva'  )

[WillS]

Oh I've got a scale.   It's a very accurate scale and if I was to pull the bow to 32" I'd know exactly where I stood, but I'm not happy enough with the tiller to do that yet. 

I was basically wondering whether it's worth reducing the weight now (if I was to reduce the weight at all) or wait until the tiller is perfect and the bow is finished, then mess about with reducing the draw weight, at the risk of unbalancing the tiller again.  Or something like that!

I guess basically my options are:

1) Treat this bow as my only bow, and reduce the weight to the point where I can shoot it now, at the risk of unbalancing the tiller and possibly end up with an overstressed bow that doesn't perform well

2) Leave it as it is and work myself into it (provided it's not a ridiculous weight at the moment)

3) Leave it, and build another one sharpish for March so I can attend the shoot but don't need to fiddle with what is almost a finished bow.

[Del the cat]

Key point with making any bow, is you really should start with a target weight in mind otherwise you end up in exactly the bind you are in now.
Judging from your previous post, I'd say 130# was a sensible weight, maybe if you are really bullish about your strength and fitness 150#, any more than that is (IMO) daft.
So I'd say go for option 1. But do it like this.
Decide on your target weight, pull the bow to that (obviously stopping before there if it looks off kilter) note the draw length and then take wood off slow and steady checking regularly and maintaining tiller as you work it back.
There is no other sensible way to do it.
Option 2. Doesn't work because the figures suggest it's a silly weight.
Option 3. Achieves nothing and trying to build a bow 'sharpish' is a recipe for disaster.
IMO, You are better off maximising your learning experience on this one.... OMG that sounds like management speak
Del

[WillS]

Bowyer Management 101.  I'd go!

I think you're right - each bow is a different learning curve, so I guess getting the most out of each one is the right way to go. 

130# is still way too heavy for me currently, 120# was my original goal as that would be hard work enough but still achievable within the year, I figured.  To be honest, this bow got to the stage where anything over 100# seemed like a bonus but it's quite nice knowing that I'm well into the green with draw weight.  It's now just about finding a safe, risk-free (or at least, minimum risk) way of bringing the weight down.

I think I need to finally accept that this bow won't be the magnificent screamer I was hoping it would be - the set it's taken due to my hesitation and slow tillering, plus the mistakes I made dealing with the reflex limb have prevented it from ever being a high performance monster, so I need to just crack on and get "a bow" out of it!!

Cheers for the push in the right direction!