Another Crazy Badger Idea

[Badger]

  Pappy, something I think would be cool to do and make a nice story would be to show up at Twin oaks with about 8 or 10 staves wide enough to split in half and make two bows out of. Pick out some good bowyers who are fast enough to make two bows over a 3 or 4 day period and do a little experiment. Let them make the first stave into any kind of a bow they choose, give the bow a good shoot in and then test it out for performance. Now take the second half of the same stave and make an almost identical bow with just very subtle differences in the building process, the heat treating, and possibly the tiller and then shoot it in and test it out. You know the guys would be on their best behavior on the first bow because they would want it to beat their second bow.  Might be fun and might make a good story. The first bow they do on their own the second bow they have the "crew" looking over there shoulder a bit noting the differences.

[Pat B]

You may need to contact Marie on her personal email because she doesn't always log in to the site. I can contact her if you wish and have her contact you, Steve.

[Badger]

Pat would you mind, I was just getting ready to start looking for a contact number. I will pm you my home phone, I think she has it but just in case.

[Pat B]

Will do, Steve.

[Badger]

  Ok, Marie is checking on it and we should have an answer within a few days. Good luck!!

[PatM]

I would be very interested in either reading or writing a chapter on a quest to reach 500 plus yards with a wood based bow. It's been done and yet we haven't come within a few football fields of that despite all our supposed increased knowledge.
 Why?

[TimPotter]

"I would be very interested in either reading or writing a chapter on a quest to reach 500 plus yards with a wood based bow. It's been done and yet we haven't come within a few football fields of that despite all our supposed increased knowledge.
 Why?"  PatB

I've often wondered if it were because in the past some of the ancient horn bows were said to come close to 200lbs. Now imagine an archer who could draw said bow 33" or so. I was just researching that very thing in an old 19th century archery history book. The author also writes that ancient texts reveal bows up to 300lbs used for strength training. We know for a fact that there are old Chinese bows in the 180-200lb range but they were made to launch very heavy arrows as well. It is a very fascinating topic for me.

[PatM]

PatM, Thimo, not PatB.
 The bows that shot over 500 were not exceptionally heavy bows, so that's not the answer.
 A 65 pounder shot well over 400 yards in the '30s and Harry Drake's record was shot with a Yew recurve pulling 85 pounds according to Dan Perry( The weight listed in volume 3 is apparently in error)
 All of these bows were  short bows with small hook recurves which is a proven design for flightshooting and yet people seem to be convinced that there are better "modern" designs.
 I have one of these bows in the works as we speak so I am on it rather than just wondering and needling people.

[TimPotter]

Ah got ya.

I'd like to see how that turns out.

[Badger]

  Tim, those bows were what we call regular flght bows. Our regular long bows and all wood bows are getting out to about 360 or so now but we don't have exactly the same rules. Are arrows are holding us back. You will see the 50# class in wood bows go over 400 before too long and our broadhead records with the heavier arrows has continued to increase.

[PatM]

Steve,  How do you suppose their arrows were different? I know shorter arrows and overdraws came into vogue but many of those records were still set with regular length arrows or at least the 23" required now.

[soy]

exciting things happening here!!!

[Badger]

  Pat I don't really know enough about that era to give you an answer beyond what I have heard some other flight shooters mention. But it may have been a difference in fletching, maybe not. The shorter bows do have a greater potential for efficiency with the very light arrows, I set a simple comp record in the 50# class using a bamboo arrow that was heavier than my wood arrows but still outshot them by about 80 yards. I had turkey feathers shaved down on my wood arrows where the bamboo arrow I borrowed had small bird fletching. The bow I used was nothing to write home about 10 years old and overdrawn and shot out years before. With the same arrow and a decent bow I am pretty confident next year I will hit the 400 mark. This was also a 67" bow, not really ideal for flight shooting. I still say the arrow is the most important.

[PatM]

The article Marc linked to on PP mentions celluloid fletching so that certainly plays a part but the overdraws shown appear minimal in length.
 I'm pretty sure the records from the '30s were set with feathers and likely linen string as well.

[Badger]

        Harry Drake was definitely at the top of the game, several others from that era were as well. I really don't know of anyone building those little flight bows anymore. You have me curious as to what the style of the bow was and the arrows he shot. Years ago i read up on it but don't rememeber much about it anymore. I am pretty confident we will see 500 yards with a 65 or 70 # all wood bow before too long.