Black locust back saftey

[Accipiter]

So, I got myself a 56 piece of naturally reflexed black locust, looking to make it into a recurve with a mildly bendy handle, 40-50# @26. My questions are 1.) is this weight/draw length combo feasible for BL? I can go 1 3/8" in the handle and 1 1/2" a bit further towards the tips. and 2.) Should I back it? This piece is, overall, very clean. However it does have two small pin knots (pins are out, so just a hole now) and I also had a bit of grain tear-out while chasing the ring , as it was my first experience with a 'heartwood' stave. The tears are generally in the top limb, close to center and there are 3, each one maybe 4-5" long and about 1/16-1/32" wide and deep. They *probably* don't go all the way through the back ring, and I think are also done tearing. Is this kind of back violation ok, or is it pretty certain to blow up my face if I don't slap something on it?



This pic shows one of the pin knots before the pin popped out, and you can kind of see a grain tear-out near the top, as well as some tool marks.

Also, anyone out there have thought on tillering a bendy handle recurve? Working recurves or static? get the outer limbs moving first or not?

Bonus: Oregon might not have Osage, but this is the only orange wood I need!  Some super-clean Ocean Spray billets I got while out mushrooming in the coast range.

[huisme]

I've used dirtier backs on my BL and had them come out well. I think that's a very reasonable plan if you make sure you start the bend in the outer two thirds and then work it toward the handle. Keep in mind that while BL is compression strong it is significantly more tension strong, so treat it like tension wood or trap the hell out of it.

Lice looking billets. Is there enough wood there for any static handles, are are you in for a bunch of D bows?

[Badly Bent]

Nice looking stave Accipiter, good natural reflex. First off the pin hole at center of limb should not be an issue. As for the tear outs, I would soak them with some super glue and watch as you begin to slowly tiller. If they start to lift then you should probably consider a rawhide or sinew patch or rawhide back the limbs out to the recurves and to cover the splinter lifts/tear outs. 1 3/8 handle with 1 1/2 fades to midlimb should get you a 40-50# bow @ 26" draw easily.
I would probably either make the recurves short, or if longer have them open up a little at full draw to take a little stress off midlimb where you have the tear outs and to get more working limb length. Slightly bendy handle will also
help to take tension stress off the working limbs. All depends on your locust quality and skill level but bl is good stuff and your design is not asking to much of it if you do your part.
See what some others think before taking my advice though, especially if this is your only bl stave.

[George Tsoukalas]

I think the stave is too short and too heavily crowned for that draw length.

The back looks like you do not have one continuous growth ring.  There is a major violation right above that knot in your picture. That ring looks like a good target ring actually.

There is some ring chasing info on my site.

http://georgeandjoni.home.comcast.net/~georgeandjoni/osage.html

Jawge

[Accipiter]

Thanks for the advice guys! BB, thats a great idea with the superglue, and I'll keep it an eye on during tillering it as suggested. I think I'm going to go for short and not-ridiculously-aggressive static recurves, steamed in. It'll be first for me, but hey, so was chasing a ring. Might as well put some hardwood nock overlays on too while I'm experimenting! Also, I got one more stave in the garage, with a bit more length to it. 

Jawge, I agree, that area is a bit sketchy. Is it possible to back only the center 24" or so with rawhide? Unfortunately, I got a bit ambitious with the drawknife, so I don't think I can take off another ring without shooting into the 30# range. I haven't broken a bow yet, so I figure I'll screw around with this stave and see if I can't get that milestone under my belt (or turn it into a bow, one of the two).

huisme, thanks for the tillering advice. I will toast the belly but since there is some good crown I think I don't know if I want to trap this one too much, especially since reflex/recurve seems like a tension-heavy design. Also, thanks the biggest billets are about 7/8" thick, which for OS could probably handle a static splice, especially if I add some other wood on the belly after, and maybe some nettle fiber backing in the handle. What I'd really like to try is this though: http://paleoplanet69529.yuku.com/reply/303271/Re-Raw-Hide-Scarf-tube-take-down-red-oak-bow#.UlIJHBAQN_w I got 3 sets, so hopefully something comes through.

[Badly Bent]

Jawge's right about ring violations, you definitely don't want any with locust, get a good clean back on the stave if possible or rawhide back the bow. You can back it just out to where the curves start if you don't want to back all the way out to the tips. Good luck.

[mikekeswick]

Jawge's right about ring violations, you definitely don't want any with locust, get a good clean back on the stave if possible or rawhide back the bow. You can back it just out to where the curves start if you don't want to back all the way out to the tips. Good luck.

+1
Personally i'd remove that reflex in the center of the stave to reduce how far the limbs have to bend. Also around that pin it would have been wise to add some extra width.
Working recurves are a bit of a misnomer in my opion. 

[blackhawk]

Back it.....and don't reduce your stave down untill you have a good solid one growth ring along the back next time

[Accipiter]

don't reduce your stave down untill you have a good solid one growth ring along the back next time - blackhawk

I think that is probably the lesson here!

Well, I guess I'll steam in some recurves and try and slap some rawhide on there, hopefully it doesn't explode. This piece feels really tough, Its already about as thin as my last bow (CA bay) and I cant get it to bend more than 2" when floor tillering.