hazelnut bow in progress

[sleek]

You should name that bow wiggles.... and I would leave the string alignment alone. I let all my strings fall to one side and that side is the side that gets the arrow. Perfect string alignment is not needed one bit. I really hope this bow works out for you because I really like it so far.

[mikekeswick]

Another way is to not cut in the width handle fades until the bow is braced and then you KNOW where the string is going to sit! Simply shape the handle area to the string. Perfect string alignment and no potential heat damage.

[steve b.]

Thanks for the feedback as I really need the advice.

The truth is I heated the handle for a long time.  I lay it over a burner with foil cover so it can start heating for some time before I go to the heat gun.  Later, on  the steam, I left it and went out and grass mowed 5 yards, talked to my neighbor awhile, helped the wife unload groceries.  I actually forgot about it.  It heated aloooong time.

I put the stave between those two poles and pushed on it with all my might and it would not move.  I'm telling you. 

So, Mike, I had to reduce the handle all the way down to finished in order to get any movement.  It moved a little but cracked too. 

But its fine now, I think. 

[BowEd]

steve b.......What helped me put my concern away about an induced accidental crack is to take laquer thinner and put a drop of it on the area that was in question.It will show itself quickly and the thinner will evaporate quickly too.When it completely disappears and your wood thickness is enough yet I think it'll make it.Especially in the stiff area you are dealing with.A sideways crack in the bending portion of the bow is a lot more dangerous.

[steve b.]

Got a string on this thing today.  Next session I will get a shorter string. 

This bow is 68" long and I'm hoping for at least 50# @29". 

I could use a little advice:  The snakey (upper) limb has a trench in the back just below midlimb.  There's a pic on page 1.  (left limb is upper/snakey)
I'm not sure if that is contributing to some stiffness in that area.  But the limb is getting thin midlimb, in my experience, as it is about .6" thick, so maybe .7" or less at the trench area.  I'm afraid the trench will come through to the belly if I keep thinning.  I'm actually thinning the belly around the trench right now so that a lump is forming, about 3" long, on the belly, as I am thinking I should mirror the back on the belly.

Also the stave is slightly gull-winged with about an inch of reflex.  And the wood seems stiff, kinda fighting me.  I've been messing with some oak staves and they are much more pliable for their size than this one so maybe that's why I'm thrown off here.

If I heat treat it will stiffen even more.

I guess my question is whether I should bridge that trench with some sinew or something and then either wrap  both limbs to match with something or back the whole bow with rawhide, over the sinew?

I can tell by stringing that I'm probably at about 60-70 lbs. right now.

Let me have it.

[sleek]

Let you have it? Screw that I'm lovin this. Send it to me when your done!  Honestly I wouldn't brace it yet. I think its too soon. And if that dip is natural, I'd say leave it. I don't think sinew belongs on that bow. Your doing a heck of a job mate, keep it up.


Tiller note. Right limb need to bend more out the fade to match the left. Then both limbs need more bending mid and outter limb. Then I would brace it.

[Joec123able]

The string was on the edge of the handle so I dry heated for an hour for an easy correction--not.  It would not budge.  I put all my weight on it and it just would not move.  I steamed the handle for another hour and it was all I could do to move it 1/2".   Other wood that I've done became rubbery and gave under pressure.  I never felt this wood give, all I heard was a crack and some dust flew off the handle.  This is using my weight.  Then I hung about 80 lbs. on it and let it cool.

Afterward I examined a shallow splinter on the arrow pass area.  It sanded off and disappeared so I think it is ok.  String looking good now.

That is unusual for Hazel. Mine plasticize quite quickly when I steam (never use dry heat when correcting a large mass like the handle area). I dont think you will get any issues from that crack....but it does sound like you put too much weight on it too soon.....the 80# seems excessive too. A good idea is to make a set up with a few lbs at the tip while you steam it...then the bend will happen at its own pace, and extension cracks like those wont appear.

And my usual cudos to people chooseing Hazel....the species it not for beginners at all (in my opinion).

Cheers

Why is hazel not a good wood for beginners ?? I'm just wondering, I've never used it myself But most seem to say its a pretty flexible wood

[wood_bandit99]

Looks good! Should name it noodle or something

[Holten101]

Why is hazel not a good wood for beginners ?? I'm just wondering, I've never used it myself But most seem to say its a pretty flexible wood

I have seen more Hazel break under beginners hands than any other wood type. Its unforgiving because 1: Its easy to work (Wood that is too easy to work has a tendency to be destroyed by tools before it get bending) and 2: Its low in compression strenght.

The succes rate increase remarkably when new bowyers get a piece of ash or even better Elm/Hick.....at the cost of building speed ofc, but thats a fair trad of imo;-).

Cheers

[Dan K]

Knew I should of come over yesterday to see this one up close and personal.  Looking really good from here Steve!

[mikekeswick]

1 st you must have an intended draw weight - always pull it this weight and never harder.
It's ready to brace when it gets to around 18 - 20 inch draw at this weight.
The wood is not fighting you it's inanimate - you are fighting it.
It isn't stiff - you just haven't taken enough wood off yet.
If the area around the valley is stiff - remove wood there.
Forget sinew, forget rawhide - if that bow needs/should be backed....i'm a monkey uncles (i'm not!).
The limb inner limb is looking hingy - do not touch it yet. The right limb looks best so try to keep that shape. Mid limb needs to be moving more.
Trust me on the heat treatment...i've made a few bows 

[Bryce]

1 st you must have an intended draw weight - always pull it this weight and never harder.
It's ready to brace when it gets to around 18 - 20 inch draw at this weight.
The wood is not fighting you it's inanimate - you are fighting it.
It isn't stiff - you just haven't taken enough wood off yet.
If the area around the valley is stiff - remove wood there.
Forget sinew, forget rawhide - if that bow needs/should be backed....i'm a monkey uncles (i'm not!).
The limb inner limb is looking hingy - do not touch it yet. The right limb looks best so try to keep that shape. Mid limb needs to be moving more.
Trust me on the heat treatment...i've made a few bows 

+9

Also, don't assume what weight the bow is pulling. KNOW what weight it's pulling and you'll never come in under weight.

Keep the pic comin Steve

[sleek]

Please explain your stance on heat treating. I don't know why you are of that opinion. And because text doesn't cary over tone of voice I want to add I am asking not arguing or defending my stance.

[steve b.]

1 st you must have an intended draw weight - always pull it this weight and never harder.
It's ready to brace when it gets to around 18 - 20 inch draw at this weight.
The wood is not fighting you it's inanimate - you are fighting it.
It isn't stiff - you just haven't taken enough wood off yet.
If the area around the valley is stiff - remove wood there.
Forget sinew, forget rawhide - if that bow needs/should be backed....i'm a monkey uncles (i'm not!).
The limb inner limb is looking hingy - do not touch it yet. The right limb looks best so try to keep that shape. Mid limb needs to be moving more.
Trust me on the heat treatment...i've made a few bows 

+9

Also, don't assume what weight the bow is pulling. KNOW what weight it's pulling and you'll never come in under weight.

Keep the pic comin Steve

You guys crack me up with some of these comments--But I'm not giving up; I'm gonna keep asking until either I get an answer or the bow is finished 

Here's one for you:  Look at the last tiller pick.  How far are those limbs moving, do you think?  A couple inches, maybe 4?
How far does most floor tillering move the limbs?  Maybe 4"?  What's the difference between the two techniques, to the limbs?  Probably not alot.
So how many bowyers know what the poundage of their STAVE is during floor tillering?  Can you tell the difference between a 65 and 68, or 72 lbs. STAVE is at floor tiller?  So if your  finished bow is intended to be 50 lbs. then you must rough out your STAVE to exactly 50 lbs. the very first time you floor tiller, all the way through full draw.  That's pretty amazing.

I'm not that good but my bows don't break, crack, or take set either at this stage even though I'm sure my usual floor tillered staves are much, much heavier than my finished bows.  I guess I've been lucky. 
The only other of the +9 comments similarly relates to my project is the hinge comment.  My answer:  Its not, the rest of the limb is stiff and leveraging that area which  is why I need to deal with the stiffness at .6" thickness.  Answer to that:  side tillering.  But thanks anyway.

[steve b.]

Sleek, my opinion of heat treating?  Heat treating adds stiffness thus poundage to the bow.  In order to get my  midlimbs bending I'll be down to .5"-ish as they are now.  I'm not sure if heat treating will add the poundage that I'll have to just scrape back off again and I'll be even thinner there.  With the trench a hole will form through the bow if I keep removing belly wood, which doesn't seem like a good thing.