Tillering warbow with reflex

[WillS]

That's very cool, thanks for doing that mate! I'll put some back into it then, and start heaving it down some more.  It's not trying to flip on me too much which is nice at this stage, so hopefully I'll be able to brace it without giving myself a hernia.

[adb]

Nice work Del! I'd still get it bending in the middle more and worry about the tips later. I wouldn't call your right tip a hinge yet, but certainly keep your eye on it.

[toomanyknots]

My worry at the moment is that deflex area on the right limb.  To my inexperienced eyes, that screams "hinge" but as it's deflexed without any tension, do I still treat it as a hinge?

It very easily could become a hinge. Any deflex in a stave, in a part that is going to be working limb I mean, can easily become a hinge if you are not careful. This is assuming you are going to just tiller out the stave with the deflex in it, without steaming or heating it out. You want to be very careful when tillering. If you have to remove wood from that spot, do it little by little. What I would do right now is (other than pulling the stave just a tiny bit more to have a better look at whats going on) is definitely work on the reflexed left limb. And of course a bit on the right limb, right off the handle, but mostly weaken the reflexed left limb till it matches the right. When everything looks even and matches, with an even bend, then go from there like usual. When the bow is tillered completely, doing it this way (tillering it out to where the bend looks good to the eye, despite deflexs or reflexs in the stave), the limb that started out deflexed will be a good amount stronger than the left limb. This is because it will not have to move as far as the reflexed left limb to reach the same place, so it has to be stronger to be even with the left. And especially the exact deflexed spot, that spot will be thicker than the rest of the bow, which it has to be, to prevent it from hinging. Although to the unsuspecting eye, you will be the only one who knows all this, . And obviously the deflexed limb will end up being the bottom one, as the bottom limb should always be the stronger limb.

[WillS]

Thanks for that reply dude, very helpful!

Really interesting regarding your last point - I was working under the assumption that the left limb (reflexed) would be the lower limb, as currently it's a lot stronger.  My offset handle is arranged in this way, as in TBB it's said that you pick the limb naturally facing the archer to be the upper limb.  But like you said, once everything's finished and the tiller is even, at that point the deflexed limb should be stronger.  Which throws everything upside down!

This bow making thing is crazy. 

[adb]

There's certainly more to it than most people think!

[toomanyknots]

Thanks for that reply dude, very helpful!

Really interesting regarding your last point - I was working under the assumption that the left limb (reflexed) would be the lower limb, as currently it's a lot stronger.  My offset handle is arranged in this way, as in TBB it's said that you pick the limb naturally facing the archer to be the upper limb.  But like you said, once everything's finished and the tiller is even, at that point the deflexed limb should be stronger.  Which throws everything upside down!

This bow making thing is crazy.

I know John Strunk said that I believe in one chapter, but it (respectively of course) just ain't what I have found to be true. I have always wondered about this, if he made a typo or something? Because the reflexed limb will always have to be made to be weaker to meet the deflexed limb, and the deflexed limb will always have to be left stronger in order to move less than the reflexed limb, ya know what I mean? Maybe he tillers his bows overly asymmetrical, where the bottom limb is very very stiff or something, I don't know. I tiller my longbows symmetrically for the most part, with just a slightly stiffer bottom limb, not enough to make it worth measuring a difference in brace height, just a smudge stiffer. Maybe between a 16th and a 8th an inch difference at the most I think. But when tillering a stave like this, no matter if the bottom limb "appears" to the eye to be alot weaker (when using the stronger deflexed limb for the bottom), it can still be a good deal stronger.

[WillS]

This pic is more for my benefit than to ask you guys for help again, but obviously if you spot anything glaringly obvious feel free to mention it!

This is pulling 80# at about 18" on the long string.  The deflexed area looks much better now, and I think my focus needs to be the inner third to middle of the left limb to even things up.  I want to get this to brace as soon as possible, to avoid staying on the long string too long as you all mentioned.  I don't think I'm far off.

[toomanyknots]

The left limbs bend is looking good. The right limb looks like it is working mostly in the middle of the limb, and not enough towards the tip and right off the handle/center. I would take a bit off the tip of the right limb, and a bit off the area right off the handle/center (if you know what I mean, off the "fade"  I guess, even though these bows don't have fades, like where the fade would be) of the bow on the right limb, trying to get it working evenly and not too much in the middle. Or anywhere else for that matter, . Also, I would remove material from the entire left limb at the same time I do that, to weaken it a smudge at the same time I am weakening the right limb. Course, it is kinda hard to tell what exactly to do from here, just cause it isn't bending that much, that is just probably what I would do. It is looking good though!,  . Can you shorten your long string any? Is it stretchy? It is better to have as short a longstring as possible, if you can. I know nylon cord will a lot of the time stretch no matter what though.

[WillS]

I definitely agree about the whole left limb needing to work a bit more, so I'll take the whole limb down a fraction.  I'm wary about playing with the middle too much yet, as it's not even brace height yet, and I don't want the middle working too early if that makes sense? 

The tillering string is just an extra long bowstring, from about a million strands of B50.  I'll shorten it up once I've got the left limb a bit weaker and see where I am!

[WillS]

Couple of weird things are happening.  I shortened the long string to the point where it was very tight against the belly and suddenly the bow started curving laterally.  It's now got a permanent C-curve throughout it's length and the string has stopped tracking straight.  It's also suddenly taken a lot of set in the reflexed limb tip (the left limb in the pics)

And it went "POP" on the tiller.  All in all, a successful bit of work.   

Grrr.

[adb]

Pop? Did it break? Lift a splinter?

[WillS]

Just a loud pop.  I've gone over it in the best light I can find and can't see a single thing that would worry me.  No splinters, no cracks nothing.  But a noise that like on a bow this heavy is enough to make me wince when I'm stringing it.

[adb]

Did the string pop out of the nock?

[WillS]

I guess that's possible, yeah.  I'll be taking it slow from here, if I decide to carry on.

This lateral curve is a pain in the ass.  I have no idea how it's even possible for a bow to do this.  The stave was dead straight with no propeller twist or curvature whatsoever, and now it's so bad that the string falls off the side of the handle.  I can see how propeller twist might develop as a bow is tillered, but sideways bend?! Doesn't make sense!

[adb]

I've had the same issue with trying to tiller heavy bows with reflex.