Author Topic: Robin Hood  (Read 13494 times)

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Offline JeremiahVires

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Robin Hood
« on: May 08, 2013, 02:08:47 pm »
Now, we've all read and watched movies about the famous archer, but I'm really getting interested in what his equipment was.
I've read that he used a Yew longbow, and by the dating of when he was supposed to be alive, that would be most likely.  But I've also read he used a shortbow.  Of what wood, I have not a clue :-[ .  I've also read that the bow he shoots is so long that no man can hold it, and that it's so heavy, no man can pull it (Got that from Saxton Pope's book).  But then he's also very twiggy and small.
I've also read that he used a back quiver.  Nothing else really points to anything else.  :D
I've read that he used Bodkin points, but I've also read he used steel broadheads.
I've really been wanting to have my hand in trying to recreate what he used, but can't find much that is a straight arrow (Stupid pun :P ) to what equipment he used.

I've been really thinking of making a 70" Yew English Longbow, pulling 75# (A happy medium between twiggy and impossible to pull).
A well oiled leather quiver.
A dozen of razor sharp broadheads.

But this is also something I'd like other peoples opinions on this topic.
Thank you.

Jeremiah
« Last Edit: May 08, 2013, 02:18:44 pm by JeremiahVires »
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Offline k-hat

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Re: Robin Hood
« Reply #1 on: May 08, 2013, 02:15:17 pm »
Since Robin Hood is half myth, half legend, and half fact (I know, fuzzy math ::)), you're probably better off looking at time period practices than anything else.  Just mho  :)

Offline WillS

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Re: Robin Hood
« Reply #2 on: May 08, 2013, 04:11:53 pm »
You could do whatever took your fancy, couldn't you? He wasn't "real" per se, so just make whatever you bow you like best and put a hat on.   ::)

If he was real though, remember that he came from the Crusades back to England.  That means he would have been surrounded by, and probably using, an Asiatic style bow.  Something light, incredibly fast and heavily recurved, possibly a composite? 

When you put common sense into practice, why would you use a very long, very heavy bow if you spend your life in the forest?  Every step you take, you'd be whacking the upper limb on a tree branch, and the lower limb on some roots.  You'd need to be quick on the draw to pick off fast moving targets, so huge draw-weights would be pointless, and you'd need a quiver packed with just about every type of arrow head you can get your hands on.  You would want mail-piercing points, armour-piercers, hunting points, etc etc.

It's quite a nice thought that ol' Robin Hood was using an 80" 100# yew warbow, but it just doesn't make any sense at all when you actually think about it.

Offline JeremiahVires

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Re: Robin Hood
« Reply #3 on: May 08, 2013, 04:53:11 pm »
That is the kind of answer i was looking for.
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Offline Poggins

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Re: Robin Hood
« Reply #4 on: May 08, 2013, 05:16:55 pm »
Is it possible that he had more than just one bow in his arrsonal, one for every day carry and one for competition ( stories I've herd says he likes to compete, maybe that's what the long bow was for).

Offline JeremiahVires

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Re: Robin Hood
« Reply #5 on: May 08, 2013, 05:20:03 pm »
Honestly, when I think of Robin Hood, the name and person that pops into my head is Howard Hill.  Not the story, but the archery part.
Couldn't howard split arrows?
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Offline Shiloh

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Re: Robin Hood
« Reply #6 on: May 08, 2013, 05:49:05 pm »
If we're going to look at Robin Hood as a historical figure, not just myth, it's important to consider a few KNOWN facts about archers of that period:

-The vast majority belong to a lord or earl, who are in servitude to the king. It's safe to say that there were at least a few who were acting as mercenaries, fighting for money instead of duty, but they're most likely the minority.

-Any decent archer had more than just a few months of training. Most likely they had been shooting almost all their lives, typically a warbow ranging from 80# to 150#, though obviously that's just a theory. Suddenly switching bows or arrows might severely effect the lethality of archers in battle.

-Most of them were peasants, or low-born.

Most archers of the period didn't have back-quivers. They held less arrows and were prone to spill if a man bent over. While a little later on, we can look at the battles of Crecy, Poitiers, and even Agincourt to examine the equipment. Arrow bags, which hung either at the hip or over the shoulder, were more for transporting arrows than anything else. Unless they were ambushed or had to make a quick shot, in battle they would typically pull out a number of arrows and put them at their feet, ready for use.

Now, bodkins and broadheads. ("Flesh arrows", as they were sometimes called) It's important to remember that while both are very effective tips, each serves an entirely different purpose. The English drove a mounted French army to it's knees in 1346 with a storm of bodkins. A long, needle-nosed bodkin could pierce chain mail at certain ranges, and even plate if the range was close and the arrow hit square. This same feat wouldn't have been possible with broadheads. They lack the penetration of bodkins, and are essentially useless against armor. However, a good flesh arrow can kill a horse with deadly efficiency and send a mounted knight to the ground, where unless he can get up, will probably be killed by a mace, axe, or dagger through a gap in the armor later on.

Other things to consider:

-Were they only expected to shoot, or would they be called on to fight in a shield wall as well? IE: Are they carrying swords/axes/maces, or not?

-If Robin Hood was returning from the Crusades in the middle east, he would definitely need a good pair of boots, or a horse. Possibly both.

Just my $.02

EDIT: I really hope you don't take this the wrong way, WillS, but I respectfully disagree on the matter of the bow choice. While it's very true that a shorter bow was much easier to maneuver in the forest, at the time European bowyers either chose not to or did not have the means/resources to make very short bows. The long, heavy bow we see come out of England in this time period was designed this way for a reason.

The warbow as it came to be called was more than just a hunting tool. It's purpose was to kill armored, possibly mounted enemies. In that case, you would need all the available power you could get. In the research I've done, an 80# bow seems to be on the lower end of the scale for adult longbows. Even in the 1100's (if that's when we're assuming robin hood lived) a heavy bow was the norm. Even the bows that came out of the viking age and around that period were estimated to be above 80#. At the time, the English were being assaulted from every side. The Scots and the Irish were routinely raiding into English territory, and other foreign parties were beginning to attack as well. Fully trained knights were in short supply. Almost every peasant man, however, could shoot a bow proficiently. As I said above, they had started from childhood and shot to the point where it was truly instinctive shooting.

And on the subject of length: Yes, it's true that these bows are very long. A warbow benefits from the thinner, longer design that was implemented at the time. I'll put it this way: I'm the most klutzy person in the woods, and I can still get around with a 74" bow without any trouble.

In short, I still firmly believe that the warbow would be the weapon of choice for our "Robin Hood" figure. I know that if I was a medieval archer, I would take the armor-defeating capability that came with the heavier bow. Short and light bows are wonderful when you're stalking deer, but when an army is charging down the hill at you, determined to kill you and everyone around you, I personally feel that I would be much more confident with a 120# longbow and steel bodkins than a 55# hunting bow.

Like I said, I really don't mean any disrespect at all. I just thought I'd throw my opinion (for all that it's worth) into the ring.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2013, 06:04:39 pm by Shiloh »
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Offline WillS

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Re: Robin Hood
« Reply #7 on: May 08, 2013, 06:20:56 pm »
In short, I still firmly believe that the warbow would be the weapon of choice for our "Robin Hood" figure. I know that if I was a medieval archer, I would take the armor-defeating capability that came with the heavier bow. Short and light bows are wonderful when you're stalking deer, but when an army is charging down the hill at you, determined to kill you and everyone around you, I personally feel that I would be much more confident with a 120# longbow and steel bodkins than a 55# hunting bow.

Like I said, I really don't mean any disrespect at all. I just thought I'd throw my opinion (for all that it's worth) into the ring.

Agree entirely, apart from one thing (and again, this is just my opinion - none of us know!) - Robin Hood in the legends wasn't a soldier as such.  He wasn't on the front line apart from perhaps in the crusades.  He was a hunter/gatherer living his life within a forest.  He just wouldn't need huge armour-piercing bows at massive draw-weights. 

I like the idea that he would have discovered the short, light, powerful Asiatic bows during the crusades and brought one or two home with him.  It makes sense to me!

Offline Onebowonder

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Re: Robin Hood
« Reply #8 on: May 08, 2013, 07:16:42 pm »
In short, I still firmly believe that the warbow would be the weapon of choice for our "Robin Hood" figure. I know that if I was a medieval archer, I would take the armor-defeating capability that came with the heavier bow. <snip>

Agree entirely, apart from one thing (and again, this is just my opinion - none of us know!) - Robin Hood in the legends wasn't a soldier as such.  He wasn't on the front line apart from perhaps in the crusades.  He was a hunter/gatherer living his life within a forest.  He just wouldn't need huge armour-piercing bows at massive draw-weights. 

I like the idea that he would have discovered the short, light, powerful Asiatic bows during the crusades and brought one or two home with him.  It makes sense to me!
I was once a soldier.  We shot the M-16a2.  A fine weapon.  The guys on the other side were carrying AK-47's, which are fun too.  I've shot and occassionally might be persuaded to carry either one now that I am home.  If I'm gonna take on Nasty ole Nottingthamm, I might use either.  At range I'd want my 16.  It's just a lot more accurate.  If I'm trying to ambush the buggar and blast through his windshield, hand me the AK.  I expect Mr Hood might have been of a similar thought.  Right tools for the job at hand!

OneBow

Offline Shiloh

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Re: Robin Hood
« Reply #9 on: May 08, 2013, 08:01:04 pm »
Good points, WillS and Onebow. As you said, Robin Hood is almost certainly just legend, though he might have been based on a real person. I suppose it's plausible that he might have taken an enemy bow and brought it home. Heck, I probably would have!

Onebow: Getting through windshields is why .338 lapua exists. /trollface.
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Offline Thesquirrelslinger

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Re: Robin Hood
« Reply #10 on: May 08, 2013, 10:10:29 pm »
If I am ambushing someone I am using something SILENT :p
heheheheh

I realisticly don't know carp about war and stuff, just some basic street smarts(e.g how to AVOID a fight ;)

Well, based on what Ive read (I am also a robin-hood fanatic) I think he shot a yew longbow, around #90, with broadheads and a hip quiver/ arrow bag-
Quote-
"Then Sir Richard had the packs laid upon the ground and opened,
whereupon a great shout went up that made the forest ring again, for lo,
there were tenscore bows of finest Spanish yew, all burnished till they
shone again, and each bow inlaid with fanciful figures in silver, yet
not inlaid so as to mar their strength.  Beside these were tenscore
quivers of leather embroidered with golden thread, and in each quiver
were a score of shafts with burnished heads that shone like silver; each
shaft was feathered with peacock's plumes, innocked with silver.

Sir Richard gave to each yeoman a bow and a quiver of arrows, but to
Robin he gave a stout bow inlaid with the cunningest workmanship in
gold, while each arrow in his quiver was innocked with gold."


I found that in my book. Took me a while...

I assume that since he could pierce a deer easily, he shot a #90 warbow- I am saying this because (IMO) it is not comfortable nor easy to hold a bow over 100# and shoot very accurately- based on Saxton Pope's Hunting with the bow and arrow
His bow was quite powerful, we do know that.
Keep in mind this is my interpretation of a myth.
I would like to replicate robin hood's bow too, but maybe in the #75 range....

"Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results"

Offline PaleoNinja

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Re: Robin Hood
« Reply #11 on: May 09, 2013, 12:59:13 am »
Asiatic Bows are practically made out of Hide Glue.  Hide Glue doesn't do well in moist environment like england.  Yew does well in a moist environment. 

Offline WillS

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Re: Robin Hood
« Reply #12 on: May 09, 2013, 05:58:40 am »
This is the problem with discussing somebody who didn't exist...!

On the one hand, it's far nicer to conjure up the image of Robin Hood using yew warbows, in the same way it's nice to conjure up fictional/fantastical Kings of England using swords that no man could wield and so on.

But you have to admit, when you take a step back and think about it, as a hunter traipsing through thick forest, a 90# warbow just doesn't work.  He may well have had one stashed away for war, or when open conflict broke out somewhere, but as a primary weapon? Can't see it happening!

Offline ksnow

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Re: Robin Hood
« Reply #13 on: May 09, 2013, 09:38:16 am »
You obviously have your opinion on what you want Robin Hood to be like, and no one will say anything that will change your opinion.  After years of historical reeenacting and research to find what was COMMON to a time period and place, to portray the BEST possible picture for public education, I believe that Mr. Hood would have had some sort of yew longbow.  They have been making them in europe for thousands of years, and continued to do so long after they discovered composites from asia.  A six foot plus bow is no hindrance in a BIG woods, I hunt with flintlocks that have 48" barrels, whereas most modern rifles have 20" barrels.  I encounter no real problems from the length.  You have to put your mind in the time period, if your fancy composite has issues, who will work on it, and yes, England is damp (well, wet), and that snappy little composite just won't like that.  Just some more fuel for a fire that will never go out.

Kyle

Offline WillS

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!
« Reply #14 on: May 09, 2013, 10:02:00 am »
You obviously have your opinion on what you want Robin Hood to be like, and no one will say anything that will change your opinion. 

Not strictly true, and that implies that I'm being a bit pig-headed/narrow minded which I'm not.  If I've come across that way I apologise! I'm more than willing to accept theories and thoughts on a fictional character who was probably just a composite of various local archers that became one legend about England.

The yew longbow was designed for war - large volleys over large distances.  This doesn't make sense in a woodland/forest environment.  If it did, all the guys in America who hunt on a regular basis would be using 80" warbows, wouldn't they?

The only conflicting opinion to mine is that he used a yew longbow, as compared to an Asiatic style recurve.  I live in England, and I live about 5 minutes away from one of the biggest ancient forests in the country, the New Forest.  I've wandered around with friends doing amateur 3D shooting, and I can tell you that my 74" yew longbow is a NIGHTMARE.  I'm not particularly clumsy, and yet I came out after the first session having to strip all the finish off the bow and burnish/sand it to get a LOT of dings and knocks and gouges out.  I don't use it any more really, because I'm a bit worried about a couple of them.

It's also not that wet over here.  It's got a bit of humidity compared to the States of course, but we're not talking Borneo!  I'm sure some clever bugger in the Crusades could quite easily find a bow that wasn't laminated with hide glue but still kept much of the recurve design used over there and brought it home without too much trouble, or once he got back to England commissioned somebody to make him something similar.  There's also a good chance that he made one from yew - short, fast, flipped tips, medium draw-weight. 

Bear in mind all the legends have him dancing up trees and sleeping in branches, setting quick ambushes and chasing after deer.  Try it in any forest with a 74" longbow and see what happens...  I know what I'd rather have!