Author Topic: Ash from wheelbarrow handle. (it blew up)  (Read 16405 times)

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Offline ionicmuffin

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Ash from wheelbarrow handle. (it blew up)
« on: March 15, 2013, 09:21:48 pm »
i was considering a scalloped bow or very similar for the white ash board i have. Its almost 2 inches wide, nice grain and ring orientation, and its 60 inches long. My questions here are: firstly, what style of bow has ash best responded to? Does it do better as a flat or slightly convex belly? If i would like to make it bend in the handle, how wide should the handle be? Does heat treating help when using it on ash? Does ash respond well to having re-flexed limbs? If so how much is enough? im trying to get a sense of what direction to take this bow. My target weight is somewhere around 40-50 at around 26 ish.
Also, do you have any other tips, hints, thoughts, observations about ash?
« Last Edit: March 23, 2013, 02:36:38 am by ionicmuffin »
Amo innectis arcus- I love crafting bows (latin)

Offline Joec123able

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Re: Ash out of an ash wheelbarrow handle?
« Reply #1 on: March 15, 2013, 10:41:07 pm »
I've never used ash before but I know you would want a flat belly
I like osage

Offline ionicmuffin

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Re: Ash out of an ash wheelbarrow handle?
« Reply #2 on: March 15, 2013, 10:46:35 pm »
I did some digging around and found one of half eyes bows. It was ash and it was 46" ntn. It was pulling 44# @ 27" and it was 1 1/2 tapering down to 3/4 at the tips. So that considered, would 55 inches be a problem? i can make the limbs 1 3/4 inches wide tapering to 3/4 inches? Making the belly flat makes sense. i was considering putting a very slight trapping of the back on it to help balance the wood.
Amo innectis arcus- I love crafting bows (latin)

Offline Joec123able

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Re: Ash out of an ash wheelbarrow handle?
« Reply #3 on: March 15, 2013, 10:52:12 pm »
Wow where did you find that bow ??? 46 inch bow pulling 27 inchs ?  Theres no way it was that short drawing to 27 inchs even if it was bend through the handle
I like osage

Offline ionicmuffin

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Amo innectis arcus- I love crafting bows (latin)

Offline Joec123able

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Re: Ash out of an ash wheelbarrow handle?
« Reply #5 on: March 15, 2013, 11:27:25 pm »
Wow that's crazy
I like osage

Offline ionicmuffin

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Re: Ash out of an ash wheelbarrow handle?
« Reply #6 on: March 15, 2013, 11:28:57 pm »
i know! i think hes better than he lets on lol. makes it look easy
Amo innectis arcus- I love crafting bows (latin)

Offline Joec123able

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Re: Ash out of an ash wheelbarrow handle?
« Reply #7 on: March 15, 2013, 11:42:53 pm »
Yea definetly to get a bow that short with that long of a draw you need just about perfect tiller
I like osage

Offline autologus

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Re: Ash out of an ash wheelbarrow handle?
« Reply #8 on: March 15, 2013, 11:47:53 pm »
I made one not too long ago that was only 1 1/16" wide at the handle and was 57" ntn down to 5/8" at the nock, it pulled 40# @28".  It had a flat belly and back and I heat treated about 3 times during the tillering process. Heat made a huge difference and it has only taken about 1/4" set.

Grady
Proud Hillbilly from Arkansas.

Offline ionicmuffin

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Re: Ash out of an ash wheelbarrow handle?
« Reply #9 on: March 16, 2013, 03:01:19 am »
well, at this point i have started tillering. kind of... ive got it to 1 1/8 at the handle and 1 1/2 at the beginning of the fades and tappers to 3/4 at the tips. I have been doing all the wood removal with hand tools, more specifically, a scrapper. its really slow going but i hope that helps me to be patient. Its probably 1/2 inch thickness and its bending on the top fade the most. the lower is pretty stiff and the upper is bending all the way to half way out. the outer parts are still stiff. If i were to flip the tips how would i go about it? dry or steam? no sharp corners right? how long to i keep the heatgun there or steam it? should the bow be bending at the tips before i attempt this? what about heat tempering. how long do i need to hold the heatgun over the area? how far should it be from the wood? what should i be careful of when doing this? can i put 2 inches of reflex in or something while im tempering?
Amo innectis arcus- I love crafting bows (latin)

Offline lostarrow

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Re: Ash out of an ash wheelbarrow handle?
« Reply #10 on: March 16, 2013, 09:54:41 am »
If you do decide to heat this one .............. ;). For flipping the tips, I wet the wood with cloth and keep it near by. Clamp to caul and put a quick grip clamp on the tip. heat the wood until the water evaps. Re-wet  and repeat a couple of times. you will soon notice the water evaps. as you apply. At this point ,apply pressure to the clamp as you are heating and you will feel it "melt " a little. Don't force it,just give the clamp what the wood will take. When you have it a little farther than you want (20% or so) stop applying the water and toast it until it just starts to change colour. Ash doesn't have much in the way of sugar so the colour won't change as quick as some others. That doesn't mean you aren't changing the structure of the wood . This will "set " the bends and help to keep them from pulling out. Wetting the wood prevents it from case hardening as you heat and prevents scorching the wood.Try it on a piece of scrap first to get the feel of it. You want the wood to be thin enough to bend but thick enough that the bend doesn't pull out when drawing.1/2" or so. You need good straight  grain for this as well.

Offline ionicmuffin

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Re: Ash out of an ash wheelbarrow handle?
« Reply #11 on: March 16, 2013, 02:30:53 pm »
so let me see if ive got this. When i go to flip the tips i should have a caul? do i need a full length one? i understand the melting part, ive had that happen. Your saying that i should wet it often right? also, should i round off the edges like i do on the back of the bow to keep it from raising a splinter? When ive been heat treating it, is there a way of knowing if it is done if it doesnt change color? the tips are just over half inch but is a tad thinner about 4 inches from the tip, should i even them out? I dont have a caul atm but i could make a full length one if it would work better. Right now i have a 2x10 or 12 that is around 25-30 inches long. i can use that to make a better partial caul. do you have any pictures of what you use to flip the tips on yours? i know that mine may not be the best, although its worked for some of them ive always had them splinter on me even if its not very deep. but ive never used the water method you described. Ive always been done in 10 mins tops for each tip...maybe too quick i think. i remember that someone else told me that the reason why i get the splinters lifting is that i dont have the tips super smooth. it has to be similar in smoothness to the back of the bow so it doesnt lift a splinter? should i be reflexing and heat tempering the bow first or should i skip the reflexing and just do flipping of tips? i understand the part about heat tempering the tips to keep it from pulling out, that makes sense.
Amo innectis arcus- I love crafting bows (latin)

Offline ionicmuffin

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Re: Ash out of an ash wheelbarrow handle?
« Reply #12 on: March 16, 2013, 08:34:59 pm »
ah well. might just have to wing it. see what happens lol
Amo innectis arcus- I love crafting bows (latin)

Offline lostarrow

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Re: Ash out of an ash wheelbarrow handle?
« Reply #13 on: March 16, 2013, 11:54:25 pm »
Partial caul will do. It gives the wood support so it spreads the stress out instead of looking for the weekest point. It also gives it a shape to conform to. I wet the wood ,heat until it evaps, re-wet only four or five times . That should give you enough heat to bend . The wood will dictate that. Yes , round over the edges of anything you want to bend. The wood will change colour ,just not as quick as Maple for example.  Try for just starting to change . If the wood splinters ,it's because it was too dry,too thick ,grain run off, too tight radius,bent too quick or not hot enough. Or any combination of the above and likely a couple I missed. It's the same as tillering. If you have a grain violation or uneven thickness, the stress will all be concentrated on the weekest spot. Remember , the longer you heat it the dryer it gets. Like a concentrated kiln. If you hold the heat gun on it long enough ,it will catch fire.  As you can see from the pic, I have a mark on the caul that I use as a reference point to get the same bend. The caul is a gradually tightening curve  so I can use it for all different  bends depending on where I clamp and where I bend to. I measure from the tip and  line it up on that pencil mark,say 8"  I then make my bend and measure from the tip to the edge of the caul. When I do the other tip I just repeat the process to match it up.!5 minutes give or take for each tip. let it cool for a couple of hours  on the caul. Wait untill the next day to work  with it again.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2013, 12:08:49 am by lostarrow »

Offline ionicmuffin

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Re: Ash out of an ash wheelbarrow handle?
« Reply #14 on: March 17, 2013, 01:16:56 am »
OK! so i just got my first real and successful steam bend in! i left if for 45 mins and then i clamped it down, although im not so sure i would have needed the metal strip but i used it anyway. I was heating it and it just didnt seem to move at all. so i just did it with steam, which apparently works REALLY well with ash lol. Here are the pics, it should work out great but if not then ill have another board to do. But so far i just need to replicate the bend near perfectly. not too big of a deal, i marked where i have to have the tip.
Amo innectis arcus- I love crafting bows (latin)