A hackberry bow that is in progress...

[ionicmuffin]

i have a bunch of hackberry that i want to try. enough to make 3 bows. Im thoroughly excited by your work and will be doing some when i get around to it.

[toomanyknots]

Also, this discussion made me think of another thing that I can't make up my mind on sometimes. Which would be how exactly to measure string follow or set with flipped tips or recurves. Not reflex, but recurves, or slightly recurved outer limbs, like in these two bows. The way I personally do it, is to lay the bow down on a flat surface, on the back of the handle, with the back of the bow against something flat, or if the recurves won't allow it, next to and in line with something flat, like a long piece of lumber or a kitchen counter. I then measure the area between the most deflexed part of the limb and the flat surface, not the distance from the recurve or the nock to the flat surface, like I know alot of people do. I think this give a better reflection of the performance of a bow, and it's potention early draw weight, more than measuring from the nock/recurve. Like this:



Is this the right way? Is this the wrong way?

[ionicmuffin]

i dont think you can measure that as set, since the overall profile of the bow has the tips in front of the handle. the bow would have taken set all along the limb, but the positive recurved tips cancels out the set

and as for measuring the set, thats how i determine if my bow has set or not. most of my bows i didnt recurve, so they took tremendous set  (2-3 inches) I just recently finished recurving a bow, and to my surprise, it took out 2 inches of set! now its down to a little under 1 inch

[sleek]

I look at set as the distance between the back of the tips to the fat surface minus the back of the handle to the same flat surface. Recurved or not, I measure my set that way.

[ionicmuffin]

how does that work sleek? i need a visual 

[sleek]

Serriously?

[toomanyknots]

  Alright..ill say this out in the open....you obviously have a passion/obsession/addiction about building bows...and its obvious you want to make a better bow....but your like an addict who knows he has a problem,but doesn't want to hear the solution to fix his problem.

First, I'm just trying to have a discussion with other like minded "addicts", so please calm down. Just joking around, no antagonistic intent. Second, I wasn't aware I had a problem, but thank you.  I'll say this out in the open, I've made plenty of bows out of hackberry with 1/4" to zero string follow, and just because you can't, or refuse to design hackberry to something other than an osage bows design and then talk crap about it like it's the woods fault when you can't make a good bow out of it without toasting it, doesn't mean I can't. Honestly. And I've explained ten times now my own personal thoughts on heat treating, and why I am not heat treating this bow over 1" of set on my stove right now, and am a bit puzzled over your taking offense to that?

People try to help you and give you honest advice,and you shun them away with a defensive attitude.

I thought we were having a discussion, but I guess if you wanna get all personal about it, then thats on you. I would however like to suggest that you read my post before you get your pantys in a bunch and take offense at nothing. I never disagreed with anything you said, and still don't, so I don't really know how I offended you. It's not like I called your bow "mushy" or anything,  .

You shouldnt be bragging about all the bows you have patched man! SSSSHHHHH....that stuff is suppose to be a secret, kinda like missing deer and stuff. Never did hear back on that patch job, I figured you would rub my nose in it since I was wrong about it working out.

LOL, Well I figured after you convinced me to pull a 66" long hackberry recurve out to 32" just to prove my point, undoubtedly adding unnecessary set, that you had ended up getting the best of me on that one in the end,  . I ended up sinewing the entire bow though just to be sure. I posted pictures and stuff.

[ionicmuffin]

yes seriously!

[sleek]

My pic would look just like toomanyknots. Only I would measure the distance from the tips to the table, and the distance from the handle to the table. One of those will be resting on the the table, depending on how recurved or not it is. Then, after shooting the bow, do it again. The difference in distance is what I would call set. I really cant draw it out for you, I wouldnt know ow to do any better than he did, only I measure all my distances from the back of the tips to the flat surface and compare that to the distance of the back of the handle to the flat surface.

[toomanyknots]

i dont think you can measure that as set, since the overall profile of the bow has the tips in front of the handle. the bow would have taken set all along the limb, but the positive recurved tips cancels out the set

See, but it cancels it out in some situations, but in others, it does not. Like for this bow, the string at brace would rest on the belly right before the recurve begins, not at the tips. With a bow like this (just theoretically, for the sake what I am trying to explain) the string would rest on the belly right before the recurve begins, and the nock would be about 3" or so from the flat surface at brace, even when the string was at a 6" brace height? See what I mean?

EDIT: This means it would not take as much force at all to brace, the bow would not have to bend much at all, which means not much early draw weight.

I don't know, it's confusing to me. Like, if I measured it like that, than the first bow and especially the second bow in this thread could be said to hold a good deal reflex right now. Which IMO ain't really that honest, because the working limbs have set, and neither bow most likely shoots like a similar bow with true reflex through out the entire limbs, and neither of them have the added early draw weight that a bow that was evenly reflexed 4" or so through out the entire limbs would have? You know what I mean?

[toomanyknots]

Serriously?

yes seriously!

LOL

[ionicmuffin]

i realized that knots, thats what has happened to  my bow. it has set but its been greatly reduced. if the tips dont touch the wall but the handle does then it has set, if the tips touch but the handle doesnt then you have reflex, thats how i view it

[PEARL DRUMS]

Megadeath or Metallica? Thats what really matters..........says alot about a guy.

[blackhawk]

  

 

[blackhawk]

i realized that knots, thats what has happened to  my bow. it has set but its been greatly reduced. if the tips dont touch the wall but the handle does then it has set, if the tips touch but the handle doesnt then you have reflex, thats how i view it

So if the the tips touch but the handle doesn't to start..and the handle still ends up not touching but moving closer after all said n done what is that called?.... is that reflex too?...please educate me.