Why I think osage is an inferior bow wood...

[PatM]

I'll have to dig out my elm rocket launcher that  is 65 inches long and draws 32 inches when necessary. 10 years old and unchanged in performance.
 The Osage stave above is obviously going to be a spliced in tip bow since the stave was just 4 feet long but  I won't give any credit to the Elm tips for helping out.
 It is 57 inches long with the tips in place and the limbs are at least two inches wide. What will that theoretically get me in drawlength and weight?

[blackhawk]

Well I'd like to put my elm rocket launcher that's 64" and draws 32" everytime head to head against yours patm . That bow still holds 2 1/2" of resting reflex n shoots great yet. Some elm can be good,and some just so so,but when ya do get a good one and design it well it can do some good things. But it still ain't osage

how long are your working limbs pat?

[toomanyknots]

TMK, I don't see how a warbow of Osage that is 74 or even 76 rather than 72 is going to magically be less stacking or more shocky.
 A Warbow is supposed to shoot a heavy arrow which should soak up that shock nicely.
 In any event the purpose that a warbow is made for is supposed to winnow out the guys who are worried about getting sore wrists.

In my endeavors, regarding a 72" warbow verses a 76" warbow, there has been an absolutely huge difference in how smooth the bow draws. Ask some warbows guys on here. I'm really not one of them, but I have built enough of them to know how they work. And I agree that there wouldn't be a huge difference in the handshock, because the 72" one would probably still have some degree of handshock anyway compared to a lighter wood that could handle a warbow design. It would just be worse with a typically 78" bow. And yes some maryrose bows were shorter, but I believe 78" was the average? I could be wrong, if anyone wants to correct me, please feel free? You make good points about arrow weight and "sore wrists" I guess, but neither of them are really relevant to my main point, which was that osage is not always best wood in all scenarios. Especially a warbow. Yes, you can make a warbow out of osage,... but why??? Anyway, I am sure you know how I feel, I know how you feel, it's cool. I need stop sitting at my computer for hours, so I am going to stop right now or this "osage warbow" thing will never end. I don't even know what possessed me to jump into to cursed thread,  .

[PatM]

Well I'd like to put my elm rocket launcher that's 64" and draws 32" everytime head to head against yours patm . That bow still holds 2 1/2" of resting reflex n shoots great yet. Some elm can be good,and some just so so,but when ya do get a good one and design it well it can do some good things. But it still ain't osage

how long are your working limbs pat?

Well I already know mine shoots further and it has a stiff handle and static ends so the working limb is more optimally strained.
 It's also made from "pithy" elm which is feather light. There is no such thing as bad Elm here unless of course it is rotten with blight.
 Working limbs on the Osage are a total of about 28".  I think I will change the ends to longer  less angled static levers which will increase the total bow length to 62 inches or so. I like that look better and according to studies the lower angled tips are more efficient despite storing less energy than sharp curves.

[RyanY]

TMK, At MOJam I was able to shoot the yew warbow of a real expert, John Murry, who happens to be the only American member of the English Warbow society. His bow was 120#@30.5" and 76" long if I remember correctly. There was no noticeable difference in the draw characteristics between the bows and although it sounds biased, the hickory bow seemed quicker to both me and John. You have yet to provide any evidence for your claims where two people here disagree with you and have provided several explanations to why you're opinion on stacking with heavy elliptically tillered longbows is wrong. I'm sorry you weren't able to make a good warbow out of osage and have these incredible biases. I'll teach you once I make one. 

[toomanyknots]

TMK, At MOJam I was able to shoot the yew warbow of a real expert, John Murry, who happens to be the only American member of the English Warbow society. His bow was 120#@30.5" and 76" long if I remember correctly. There was no noticeable difference in the draw characteristics between the bows and although it sounds biased, the hickory bow seemed quicker to both me and John. You have yet to provide any evidence for your claims where two people here disagree with you and have provided several explanations to why you're opinion on stacking with heavy elliptically tillered longbows is wrong. I'm sorry you weren't able to make a good warbow out of osage and have these incredible biases. I'll teach you once I make one. 

What evidence are you talking about? Where the heck is your evidence? And why the heck do you figure his bow was 76" long? Is he biased too? Your ridiculous man.

[RyanY]

TMK, I shot his bow at MOJam and I think it was 76" long. Can't remember for sure but it was longer than mine. Length is measurable so no bias there. The fact of the matter is that the last few inches of draw on both bows did not drastically increase like you claimed it would. You can call me a liar but my word is my word.

[toomanyknots]

I mean come on. You, who have admittedly never even made an osage warbow, are going to tell me, who has made a bunch of osage warbows, that I am wrong about how an osage warbow performs. That is ridiculous and insulting. I'm done. I would like to exit this arguement in a good natured way though, if I could.

[RyanY]

It's simply a matter of the physics. Nothing tells us an osage warbow would perform differently if made well. Change in wood species won't affect stacking and differences in density can be accounted for in dimensions and tiller shape. We can stop since we don't seem to be getting anywhere but I'll eventually make an osage warbow and it'll be grand!

[toomanyknots]

Change in wood species won't affect stacking

I NEVER SAID THAT, stop misquoting me. That is utter bull poo. If you wanna quote me, use the freakin quote button. Why the heck would I ever say that? Anyway, I am done.

[blackhawk]

Here's a good example and I trust Adam and his word....this is just one example of evidence and I know for a fact many others have built osage warbows without stacking and handshock issues

 http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php?topic=13967.0

[iowabow]

I guess what I got out of this 25 pages was an understanding of how passionate people still are about wooden bows and that's a real good thing! I do hope that we can see some bows come out of this talk and learn something from the ideas. I know I cant wait to make my next bow and use some of what was said from this post.

[PEARL DRUMS]

Do you suppose war bows would have been historically 66" long if osage grew like yew did across the pond? Do you suppose yew/elm warbows are commonly 80" long because they had to make them that long to accomodate the draw weight?

[blackhawk]

Settle down a lil folks...

Toomany...do you remember the exact stats of the osage elb warbows you made. What's the bow length,draw weight,and draw length?

[PEARL DRUMS]

And why do warbows have to be 80 'ish inches long while any other style of bow can be altered according to the wood we use? Why cant a warbow be 68" long and made from osage?