Unsucessful sticks and stones...

[JW_Halverson]

HEy Lowell,

Sorry to hear you had bad luck this year shooting stone.  I read your post and wanted to make a suggestion: shoot smaller, lighter stone points.  I've made stone points for bowhunters who wanted 125 grain points and they are HUGE.  They look more like spear points and I think that unless you have a powerful bow (60 lbs or so) then penetration will suffer.  The points I shoot deer with are a good bit smaller and lighter than the 2-blade steel points people shoot nowadays.  And I've never had any penetration problems with them.  I killed a doe 2 years ago with a very thin point I made out of a small flake of Novaculite and that point probably weighed 20 grains.  But it sliced thru both lungs and shattered the rib on the far side.  I think prehistoric people used smaller stone points for the same reason.  Also if you're shooting a 46 lb bow and your arrows weigh 400 grains, I think you would have more success with smaller stone points.  Just my 2 cents....

Saw a recent article in a bowhunting magazine that said pretty much the same thing...and backed it up with empirical evidence and photographs.  Pretty interesting stuff.  If you are interested in reading it, I can send you my copy, Billy!

 

[Ryan_Gill_HuntPrimitive]

I have an article pending in our own PA mag about the difference in sizes between atlatl and true arrow heads.  wish it was published now already so you guys could read it!

[criveraville]

Hello Lowell. I'm sorry to hear the bad news, but in all reality it's just news. I'm not trivializing, but I've lost more deer hit with high caliber rifles because if hit more with them. However, I have lost two deer hit with a compound and thunderheads. That was back in the old days.. I still have yet to draw back on a deer with primitive gear.

No worse feeling than losing an animal. No matter what you hit it with. The sleepless nights, the guilt, the questions and the doubts all swirl around in your head. That just demonstrates that you did everything you possibly could to ethicly find the deer you shot.

It's hard not to beat yourself up over something like this, but you've got to get back on that horse. It happens. A few weeks ago my daughter was bucked off a horse forward over his head. It was at a 4H event. She got right back on that horse.

I have my own "horses" I struggle with and some I have yet to tame and conquer. I'm not doing a good job with the actual subject matter of angle and stone points and penetration, but this is what I know.

Here lately I've had my fair share of "horses" I have been struggling with.

I wasn't in the military, but from reading and learning I have learned that military training kicks in like natural instinct. Even when it's not logical to "advance" the training kicks in and soldiers advance even at unreasonable odds. I'm a student of literature and made this discovery and its my own original theory and I have not seen it in print before:

48 As the Philistine moved closer to attack him, David ran quickly toward the battle line to meet him. 49 Reaching into his bag and taking out a stone, he slung it and struck the Philistine on the forehead. The stone sank into his forehead, and he fell facedown on the ground.

In this example, David was a boy without any training in the art of warfare, yet despite that fact he charged on against an enemy superior to him by all accounts.


Moral of this is get back on that horse. Pursue your dream of hunting primitively and take the failures not as failures, but as success in your learning curve...

Cipriano

[lowell]

Thanks Cip...was sitting at computer thinking of things to put on "to do" list for today and wrote haft arrow right before I read your post!!

  Twistedlimbs was generous to offer some points for me to try and they will go on arrows for hunting the rest of this year!!  Thanks again to Ryan!!

[crooketarrow]

  I've shot 3 bucks and 2 doe's and 3 gobblers with stone points lost a doe. All off the ground the doe I lost was a low shoulder shot. Still pentrated through the shoulder. All came from a 50 to 61 pound bows. All my heads were 3/4 to a inch by 2 3/4 to 3 inchs. Long and skinny works good for me.
  I'd say like stated those high angle shots use'lly end up one lunger. A deer can go along way on one lung. And through exsperince most are never found.  I've shot quite a few bucks from tree stands with a selfbow and have had a couple of the same thing happen.  I quit tree stand hunting in 06. A CLIMBER OR LOC-ON on your back just don't seam to primitive with a selfbow in your hand.

    I have tracked MY OWN and help OTHERS track dozzens and dozzens of deer. I still have 2 to 5 people ask a year for me to help. I never turn anyone down.
  I know it sucks but you can't get any exsperince in tracking wounded deer if you never have the chance to do it. YOURS OR FRIENDS go on every tracking chance you can. I hate to say it but it's true.  The more you lose now the more you find later. So remember every little tracking nit- bit you can tuck away. IT WILL COME IN HANDY LATER.

[lowell]

crookedarrow....

   couldn't agree more but have tracked many deer over the 40+ years I have hunted....mine and friends.  My son is my biggest help now as he has also helped track many of mine as well as his and his friends.  Tracking ability is not lacking here.

   But looking harder and harder at hunting from the ground!!!  I think that would help get that extra lung!!!

[crooketarrow]

  MOST DIFFENTLY LOWELL a buck (deer) can go along way on one lung. But's dead in 10 seconds with a hole in both. When I was a kid just starting I even shot a doe with a field point THROUGH BOTH LUNGS. She might have went 80 or 90 yards.
  Plus from the ground if you do hit a rib your much more likely to still penatrate and get lungs. Where if your arrows angleing down shot from a tree if a ribs hit it's much more likely  to glance down ward and not pentrate the rib.
  I tree stand hunted for over 25 to 30 years. I'll be the first to tell you hunting from a tree is DOZZENS of times easyer than ground hunting. And to really kill bucks you have to get up. But geting up has it's disavanges also.
  I had 2 strokes in 06 that made me a full time ground hunter. Personally (even though I could now) I'll never climb a tree again.
 You just have to fine turn your set ups alot better than if tree stand hunting.AND HAVE TO TOTALLY HUNT THE WIND. WHERE 20 FOOT UP YOU CAN GET AWAY WITH A WHOLE LOT MORE. With the wind and with movement.
  BUT IT'S A LOTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT LESS WORK MOVING, PUTTING UP AND DOWN A DOZZEN STANDS A YEAR. Plus a whole lot safer. If I fall off my stoll I'll get up.
 PLUS IT'S WAY MORE GRADFIEING KILLING A BUCK OFF THE GROUND ON HIS OWN TERMS.