Unsucessful sticks and stones...

[lowell]

I think this story needs to be told.  I feel bad but I have hit 2 deer this year and have not found them.   I got a sticks and stones deer opening day last year but this year is everything last year wasn't.

  I hit a buck opening day with a quartering away shot.  I thought it was a good shot but I think the arrow bounced from 1 rib to the next and stayed between skin and ribs and did not get past the rib cage.  I really think the shot from a compound would have gotten inside the ribcage. Deer and arrow were not found.

  Tonight I hit a doe at maybe 5 yards from a tree stand.  I hit was what I would thought was a heart shot.  Son, grandson and I tracked a good blood trail for maybe 300 yards as it slowly became less and less.....and it got into some fine grass that made tracking even harder. Since it was not a heart shot, I think it must have been a little low and hit just brisket.  Deer and arrow were not found.

  Just wanted NO ONE to think hunting primitive is the same as bowhunting with non-primitive methods.    The people here that post a successful hunt have done it right but it is not all success.
   
  I'm sorry to bring the mood down here but I'm definately at a low point right now.  Going with steel points for a while till I get some confidence back!!

[JW_Halverson]

Sorry to hear that, it's heartbreaking to wound a deer and be left wondering how much suffering you havew caused....IF you have a shred of ethics in you.  And it sounds like you do. 

Can I ask what your set-up might be?  Draw weight?  Arrow weight?  Point weight? 

[lowell]

Bow is 46# at my draw,  Arrow weight is 440 gr.  and points are 125 gr.

  I've killed 3 deer with the same bow but with Ace broadheads.  Stone kill last year was with a different bow that was 50# but was hitting better this year with the 46# bow so wanted to use that one. 

  I'm not using stones as my excuse but definately have to have them hit the best spot!!

[JW_Halverson]

5 yards from a treestand?  Now if you were just 15 ft up in the tree your arrow angle would be entering the deer at around 45 degrees.  I'd be willing to bet all you got was one lung.  And a deer with one lung can go a long way as you just learned. 

This is one major strike against tree stands.  They make it very difficult to get both lungs on close shots.  The current rage in tree stands is to get 'em as high as you can stand, which makes it harder and harder to double-lung.  The opposite end of the spectrum is being on the ground with the deer.  On a broadside shot it is almost impossible to not get both lungs. 

How about a fishing arrow with barbed broadheads and heavy weight saltwater tackle?  "Pump and reel, pump and reel!  Slack off, let the drag do the work!  Bow to the fish...I mean DEER when it jumps, but don't give them slack line!  Whatever you do, keep your tip up!"

[Pappy]

Sorry to hear that,tough to loose one with anything,as for tree stands I hunt form them most of the time and yes the higher you go the tougher the shot,I stay 12/15 feet and never shoot for a heart shot at close range,I shoot for my side
a few inches below the backbone,no problem getting both lungs if you hit there.
Most of the deer I kill are from 3 to 10 yards. I admire any person that hunts Eastern White tail from the ground and are very successful at it.
   Pappy

[lowell]

I think the tree stand height is the important issue!!  Most of my primitive deer have been from shorter stands.  The one I put up and shot from yesterday was the standard 14 or 15 foot. 

 When my son and I put it up, I said maybe I should leave the 1 section off and make it more like 10" high.  He is a compound shooter and of course said keep it high.  Think I'll make it lower and risk being seen.

  Thanks for not bashing me for bringing this up.  Seems all the tv shows only show nice clean kills and other forums even may pull this type of dicussion.   I believe it is part of real hunting.

  My grandson got to see the other side of hunting last night and there may be a few younger guys on here that have only seen the successful side of hunting....there are 2 side to everything.

[JW_Halverson]

Some of the TV shows make it osund like it is absolutely impossible to kill a deer without EVERY single product their sponsors and advertisers are pushing.  No wonder all our ancestors are dead....they starved to death waiting for modern conveniences!   

I wish it was legal to use tracking dogs on wounded deer here in South Dakota, or for other states where it is illegal, too.  I can't say it's an unfair advantage for the hunter or unsporting.  In your case, Lowell, it would have led you to your deer most likely.   It would surely save a lot of ethical hunters like yourself sleep better knowing they would be less likely to lose a deer. 

[TRACY]

Hats off to you Lowell! Tough break. Been there on my first primitive connection. I think you have a good setup and have just encountered some realistic and unfortunate results. Don't beat your self up to bad, it happens more than we like. Keep at it!

Tracy

[armymedic.2]

Jw.   I agree with you very much on the dog aspect.  I had a shepard husky mix that laws prevented from tracking deer.    I tell ya what though.....take that dog for a walk the next day and he sure could stumble on a deer!  I have no doubt our natives and many others tracked with dogs.    To not do so is a shame i believe.    As i matter of fact i find it unethical not to use a dog ifu have one at your disposal.   Luckily in new york you can call a pro and pay him to use his dog.......bc he has paperwork from the state......to do exactly what you are not allowed to do......take what u will leave the rest!.

[crooketarrow]

  If you bow hunt it happens.

[turtle]

Its legal here in Ohio to use a dog to track wounded deer as long as it is on a leash. Been thinking of getting a dog and training it as i Dont know of anyone around that has one trained.

[armymedic.2]

If u know a farmer cbicken blood trails pretty well.   Treat at the end.    And use a chest harness like on the police dogs.   

[billy]

HEy Lowell,

Sorry to hear you had bad luck this year shooting stone.  I read your post and wanted to make a suggestion: shoot smaller, lighter stone points.  I've made stone points for bowhunters who wanted 125 grain points and they are HUGE.  They look more like spear points and I think that unless you have a powerful bow (60 lbs or so) then penetration will suffer.  The points I shoot deer with are a good bit smaller and lighter than the 2-blade steel points people shoot nowadays.  And I've never had any penetration problems with them.  I killed a doe 2 years ago with a very thin point I made out of a small flake of Novaculite and that point probably weighed 20 grains.  But it sliced thru both lungs and shattered the rib on the far side.  I think prehistoric people used smaller stone points for the same reason.  Also if you're shooting a 46 lb bow and your arrows weigh 400 grains, I think you would have more success with smaller stone points.  Just my 2 cents....

[lowell]

Thanks for the advise billy...  think I will re-group and get prepared better for next year!!! And prepared it what is needed to hunt primitive!!!!!!!

  Think I'll finish this year with steel!!

[Ryan_Gill_HuntPrimitive]

I had some hiccups for a while too until I fund what worked reliably for me. Smaller points on a heavy arrow have given me much better results. I shoot roughly 60# bows 550-650gr arrows with very sharp serrated stone points that are about 1" wide x  1.5 - 1.75 long  and only 50-80 grains. I also only take shots 12 yards and under even though I shoot well out to 20. From what I have found, a marginal shot with steel can still be a good shot, but a marginal shot with stone is usually a bad shot.. basically saying, I want a double lung\heart shot on every single deer without question, or I wont release the arrow. By taking the close shots with the setup listed above, I have gotten out both sides and had a few complete pass through's  on pretty much every deer I have shot. Yes you are 100% right, shooting stone is not the same as shooting steel points. I have been trying to say that for a long time..lol   You do very well hunting from what I have seen in the past and I have no doubt that you will come up with a set up that works really well for you. 

you are not a knapper right? If you want, I'd gladly send you a few of the points I use. You could try those out and see if they help any.  not like I make the "best" points around or anything, but mine are definitely sharp and sized for killing deer from a bow. Also check out this video about mounting the points. I am not sure how you do it, but tapering into the point like I show has helped me out a lot in penetration.   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_-19LW8jq0

but whatever you do, don't sweat it. If it was easy everyone would do it. finish out with steel and hit it again when you feel confident again. Send me a Pm if you want and I will tell you a story..lol