My Koperski Stave

[soy]

I enjoy working with walnut, it is not as forgiving as some woods but it is very beautiful ....as far as gun docs short walnut it was neck and neck with my osage shorty on a 3dfew shoot we did...probably faster! But a lot of that is in the way its built

[Fred Arnold]

Gun Doc, that's a beauty. Thanks for pointing it out to me. I've had some problems using the search engine here and most of the time end up finding very little related to what I'm researching.

Being that walnut seems weak in compression, would it be best to flatten the belly and trapping the back?

[Josh B]

Walnut is actually pretty well balanced as a self bow. Providing that you have a flat back an d a flat belly.  The only way that I would trap it is with a hard backing such as white oak, hickory or something similar to those.  On a pyramid style stiff handle bow, I usually go with about 2" wide at the fades for a few inches and straight taper to the tips.  Make sure the working limb is draw length + 1" and take your time.  If you go with a soft backing such as rawhide, linen, silk or whatever, the crown will no longer be a concern.  The hardest thing for me with walnut is chasing sapwood rings.  They are just plain hard to see.  If you have to do that, have good lighting and a wet rag handy.  If you lose sight of the ring, just wipe it with the wet rag and the grain will show up better.  Josh

[Fred Arnold]

Josh, I shouldn't have to chase rings unless I choose to incorporate the heartwood to show in the back which I'm not going to attempt on the first few at least. The bark stripped off in long strands which made things easy with no damage to the sapwood. I wished the mulberry would have been as easy.

From what I'm hearing and seeing in my research lends me to believe that a D bow is pretty much out of the question. Is that your consensus also?

Being new to bowmaking leaves me somewhat reluctant to try anything that hasn't worked for others with more experience.

Besides the pyramid design that you refer to, are there any other alternative styles that you would recommend, such as Molly or ELB?

I have processed deer back sinew, elk leg sinew, and both deer and kangaroo rawhide that I traded for. All of your suggestions are appreciated. Thanks, Fred

[Josh B]

Using the sapwood under the bark is a good idea to start out with.  Elb wouldn't be a good design for walnut, however I have made quite a few NA style d-bows and halfeye has made a few very impressive mollys with quartersawn walnut.  If you want to make a d-bow, it needs to be a little wider.  I make them 1 1/2" wide for the center section for about a foot down both limbs and then straight taper to the tips.  I have had good luck with this design up to 50# draw.  I hop this helps,  Josh

[Fred Arnold]

I think it would work better for me for the first one anyway. Is the NA style much different than Torges refers to in "Hunting The Osage Bow"? I'd better dig out the TBB's.

[Josh B]

Well I honestly don't know!  I don't have that book yet.  Its been on my acquisition list for years, but I just haven't got it yet.  The NA style bow in my opinion, is the epitome of efficiency.  It is easy to make, easy to tiller and they just don't require much wood to produce a very effective weapon.  I really like the way they handle and shoot.  I'm looking forward to seeing what you make out of those staves.  BTW Ive been all over NE, what part of the state does Munson creek run through?  Josh

[Fred Arnold]

Munson Creek is not very long or wide. I doubt if it's even on a map. I've never been to the source where it begins but was told by Alan K  that it starts less than couple of miles south of me. Probably covers around 6 miles of winding waterway  through the hills before it enters my property from the northwest picking up volume from the underground springs and traversing possibly another 6 miles before feeding into the Loup River.
Elba is located 35 miles NW of Grand Island or 34 N of Wood River on Hwy 11. I'm located 3 mi. NW of Elba as the land rises into the hills out of the river valley.

[Fred Arnold]

I reduced the stave with the bandsaw and then cleaned it up a bit with the drawknife to get a feel for the grain and what I have to work with. The handle section remains 2"+ and the fades 2 1/2"+. I'm going to have to remove a lot of wood yet from the belly. After removing 1 1/2" from the limb to get rid of a knot, length is less than I desired at 62 1/2".

I will also have to set some type of hot box up in order to ever get a bow by Christmas. The stave weighs 5 lbs. 4.6 oz.

Encountered a couple of trouble spots that I could use help with so I'd appreciate your input.
 

[Josh B]

I've certainly traveled that area.  I've even caught some really nice channel cats out of the North loup.  Albeit, that was 15 years ago and upstream from you at Brewster.  Nice country and even nicer people.

  I should probably be more clear about 'taking your time with walnut' .  Walnut is a wood that has to be slowly trained to bend.  Take your time while tillering it.   Slowly pull it a bit and slowly lower it. Do that several times and then slowly pull it a bit further.  If you keep working it gently like that throughout the tillering process you will have less set and a much better bow in general.  However, if you approach walnut like Riki Tiki Tavi on crack, it will not respond well.  I had a habit of doing that and ruined a lot of beautiful staves before I figured it out.  If you have any questions feel free ask, if I can't answer em,  there is always somebody else on here who can.  Josh

[Josh B]

I  must of been typing when you put those pics up.  62 1/2" is doable for 29" draw, but just barely.  Your tiller will need to be a spot on full compass (arc of circle) and if you make pin nocks you will only lose 1 1/2 inches of length.  The big knot straight in from the belly wouldn't concern me much.  Just make sure there's no rotten core in the hole when you tiller.  It may even be eliminated by floor tiller stage.  The one with the grease pencil in it might be a problem.  How far from the end of the stave is it and how thick is the wood between the knot and the back of the bow?  As far as drying goes, if you cut your bow to shape(leave a 1/4" of extra wood all the way down both sides) and then floor tiller It, it should be ready to take down to final dimensions and tiller in about six weeks.  Especially given the climate where you live, it'll dry pretty quick.  Josh

[Fred Arnold]

Well I got a call from the locker last night and they must be behind and wanting to catch up before deer season begins. I'll be back to work 2 or 3 days a week until Nov. 10th and then full boar until all of the seasons deer are processed.

I removed some more wood to get closer to final dimensions an will likely let it rest until Thursday when I have more time. Weighed it before I went to bed at 3 lbs 15.5 oz and again this morning at 4:30 and it had lost 2 .1 oz. Limbs are still 2"+ wide for 12" tapering to 3/4" at the tips, and 1"+ in thickness throughout so still have some rasping to do.

[Josh B]

Thats looking pretty nice.  I thought you were going for a simple eastern NA bow, but thats actually a better design that your using for walnut.  Getting the fades right on a narrowed handle d- bow can be a little finicky, but worth the effort.  Try to keep at least 2" width at the fades if you can.  I'm looking forward to watching your progress.  Josh

[Fred Arnold]

Had a little break the last couple days and decided to put a little more time in on this stave. I left the depth on the tips for 8" because I don't know how to proceed or even where I'm heading with this bow at this point. I've never worked with flat limbs so it has me a bit confused.

I've reduced the limbs to 1/2" in depth and this walnut still won't budge when I check floor tiller.The handle and fades taper to the 1/2" about 4 1/2" from the fade and remain constant until they approach 8" before the tips.

I may be surprised and change my mind later but at this time I don't really care for the flat wide limb design. There may be a bunch of black walnut on the trade blanket in the near future.

[Josh B]

I can understand your frustration.  There is a reason that you don't see all that many unbacked  bendy handle paddle bows posted.  Its not an easy design to get tillered correctly.  Especially when just starting.  A simple eastern woodland bow would be much easier to start with.  That being said, with enough patience and asking enough questions, you should be able to make a good bow out of that.  You mentioned that you were a bit confused.  Could you be a bit more specific? I'm not sure which part of this build that your unsure of.  Just so we're on the same page, here's some pics of a black walnut eastern woodland d-bow.  These are very easy to make.  Josh