Just curious

[George Tsoukalas]

I've been trying to make, breaking and making bows since '89. I've immersed myself in the bow making literature and have most of the books. I've been a subscriber to PA since the 2nd issue. However, I've never heard the term 5 curve bow. I see deflex-reflex bows called 5 curves. I've seen gull wing bows called 5 curves. The only forum I remember seeing "5 curve" bows is this one. Is the term peculiar to this site. What is a 5 curve bow? Why are we using it all of a sudden when other terms have served for years? Just curious. Jawge

[Josh B]

Interesting question.  I have no idea who coined the phrase or when, but I like it.  The term "5-curve" for me , conjures up the mental image of a plains gull wing with recurves.  I would imagine there are quite a few terms used regularly today that were not used in the past.  The term "flipped tips" for instance,  I would guess that probably only goes back a decade or two, but it is a widely recognized and useful term in the community.  If you track down where the term " 5- curve" started,  I would be interested in learning of its origin.  Josh

[Stringman]

Well, I reckon its the same reason osage orange has so many different names.  Sometimes we use our imagination to describe things and then like they way it came out so it sticks. I'm a relative newcomer so I don't have all the traditional names for describing all the different aspects of primitive archery. I certainly don't mean any disrepect when I call something the wrong name. Just my own ignorance.. 

Scott

[crooketarrow]

  Thats also a new term to me also.  Even a recurve or gull wing dos'nt have 5 curves or is that surpose to be 5 inch curve.

[coaster500]

Jawge being relatively new to this, I don't a clue as to how, when or where a term began and but the why is obvious in the profile. I am curious as to what advantage there are in the design. To me other than the center curve (handle) it looks like a bow that took some set with flipped tips? The end result is very a pleasant profile and a graceful looking bow but what are the advantages???

Sorry Jawge don't want to pull your topic off target, just curious???

[PEARL DRUMS]

Im willing to bet most start out as a short flat bow with reflexed tips that takes on mid limb set and is then called a 5-curve bow. Im curious as to how many actually build mid limb deflex in from the start.

[LivingElemental]

I'm extremely new to this, but I've read the four bowyer's bibles, and have picked up most of my terminology from those, usually with no explanation of what the terms literally mean, and I've just had to infer from there.

The whole section on Osage Orange, I kept thinking "Man, that wood looks so familiar, but they say it's native to the West." Come to find out, that's what my uncle had planted all around his property to border his fields from neighbors fields, and all my life I've known it as a hedgeapple, growing those putrid green fruit the horses used to eat.

I was entirely unaware 5-curve was anything other than a common term.

[Josh B]

Pearly- I put in the deflex midlimb from the start.  However, I believe the originals were probably straight bows that took a lot of set .  The handle were probably set back in an effort to counteract the set.  I say probably because obviously I'm just theorizing.  I like the design for two basic reasons.  The first one is that I find the profile aesthetically pleasing.  The main reason that i like the design is that with all those curves ,you effectively shorten the overall length of the braced bow while maintaining the actual length of the limbs doing the work.  For example, the five curve on my bench now is 54" ntn, but with all the curves it is as compact at brace as my 48" d-bow at brace.  Sort of follows the old farmers adage "you can plant more corn on a crooked row"   Josh .

[PEARL DRUMS]

Good explanation Josh. Im glad to hear you planned yours, Im afraid most arent. Again Im just guessing. 

[JackCrafty]

George, I think "5 curve" is not PA lingo.  It seems to be used by various bowyers out there in cyber space.  I've never heard it used during regular conversation, though.

Sometimes you hear the term used on youtube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtikoWw4_1A

[toomanyknots]

Good explanation Josh. Im glad to hear you planned yours, Im afraid most arent. Again Im just guessing.

Well you can plan it and you can end up with it simply by tillering the bow to the profile. If you start out with a very reflexed bow, and only tiller the mid-limbs while leaving the handle and tips stiff, you can end up with a 5 curve profile. I would like to create a form however and figure out a good way to steam handle set back into blank selfbow staves, but as of yet I haven't made or tried anything. The main reason for a set back handle is increased draw length, which obviously increases the bows performance.

[JonW]

I watched a documentary on t.v. where A guy started cataloging baby names from the same hospital for like 30 years. Names started developing many variation within the same name as far as spelling goes. For example, he looked at the feminine name "Unique." he discovered 47 different spellings of Unique over a thirty year period. I think it is no stretch at all to make that simmilarity here.

[toomanyknots]

Here is a mulberry stave I cut specifically to make a setback handle 5 curve out of. I had been eyeing this stave (or "tree") for 2 years before I cut it. It's got 4 1/2" natural reflex at the handle:





Here is a set back handle hackberry stave from a tree I cut this spring. Although it is only a little bit set back, and will only be about the aesthetics of a 5 curve profile bow not added draw length. ...I guess that goes for the mulberry one too. I also plan to turn this stave into a 5 curve:







This stave also has a sister stave that has a similar profile. I also have a mulberry stave that is almost worked down to bow, which is evenly reflexed at about 4 1/4" natural reflex, which I might just make into a 5 curve contact recurve,... or at least I would like to try. I think that would be pretty cool, kinda like a cupid bow?

[osage outlaw]

I think Ed Scott referred to one of his bows as a 5 curve in one of the youtube interview videos.  I think that is the first place I heard them called that.

[Josh B]

I would NOT recommend tillering in(purposely inducing set) the desired profile.  To do that would mean that you have exceeded the elasticity limits and moved well into the plastic range of the wood.  This, for the most part would mean that you have turned your good stave into a cool looking limp noodle. Excessive set is always a bad thing, sinew backed or not.  I don't have a "5-curve" caul that I clamp the bow into to shape.  I have several different radiused half circle cauls that I use.  Every bend is done individually.  The caul I use for the setback and recurves is the radius of a 3# coffee can.  The radius for the midlimb bends is a 55 gal. Drum.  Sorry George  I don't mean to hi-jack your thread.  Just seems to be a sticky topic in several aspects.  We could start a new thread if you prefer.   Josh