Im new and probably going to stir up a hornets nest...

[Barkspud]

Ive  decided to make my first long bow and ive got some guidance in building it from a good friend Richard Longbow.  Did some searchs on the subject and see some of you have read his article way back on saltwater curing . Well im not a bow maker but i know he is and i have seen his work. The last few mornings we've had lengthy discussions over the saltwater curing process and he offered me a stave of white ash all cured to make my first bow. I can see that from reading back posts youve hagled over the topic pretty good.  I have too read his writting in the magazine on it wether it make a difference who know? I do understand where he's coming from and sort of why? He is a Lacota indian and is a fine bow maker and leather craftsman. I trap alot and have been tanning hides with barks and acorns for somtime. My goal is to make some quivers out of otters and build my own arrows and bows. Im here to learn and get some other opinions and ideas ive worked with wood all my life and done a little bit of carving. There's many great bow makers out there and im sure some are here. Ive done tons of reading and watched several vids. I have patience and probably a little slow working wise i like to do things right the first time. Me and longbow have been friends for a handfull of summers now. Im am honored to have him help guide me along the way. I will be looking forward to reading post and seeing some of you alls work..I think im going to have a blast learning the process of building me a hunting bow..  Did i mention im a advid bow hunter and bears are my game...

[sonny]

is there a question in there somewhere ??

[johnston]

Not sure if I understood your post but welcome to the site, good to have you here.

[Gordon]

Welcome aboard. I'm looking forward to seeing some of your work.

[JW_Halverson]

I'm fairly sure that the saltwater curing is not exactly a Lakota technique.  I could be wrong, but I've been all over the Dakotas, Wyoming, Montana and the Minnesota and Wisconson woods whhere they originally came from and I didn't run across much salt water. 


I'd love to have someone put this to a controlled test with a set of sister staves taken side by side off a tree.  One air cured for 24 months and the other stewed in seawater for the same period of time and then air cured to a matching relative humidity.  Be a heck of a project, anyone game to take this on?

[Barkspud]

No no questions in there just a hi and a starting point for me...didn't see where a new guy could introduce himself and say hi so i picked here. JW The saltwater curing was a idea he picked up away from  the dakotas it's not a native thing. He was studing a ship wreck and part of the cargo was bows that had been down and preserved. They dried some and found they still was usable. There some instrument thing in there as well but it definitely wasnt a lacota thing to set the record straight. The japanese did some stuff similar as well but heck that another story.  jw i agree thats the only way to do it is cut two cure one and one not. The saltwater curing takes some time because of the continuos soaking and drying to achive the cure. Just soaking once isnt going to do the trick from what i understandhe feels it acheives a denser wood or somthing like that. I'll be posting up pics and any info i gather along the way..either way it going to be a fun learning experience for me. Maybe we can shed some light on this salt thing and see if there really is a difference.

[DRon knife]

 Salt does draw moisture,but does it damage wood cells? I will do a little testing.
 

[Hrothgar]

Barkspud, welcome to PA.
Your friend might be referring to the studies and experiments that were done on some yew longbows and staves that had sunk aboard the 'Mary Rose'. As I recall the bows were soaked for an extended time in pure water to clean out the salt, then gradually air-dried. Some broke, some were shot, some were retillered and shot.
I believe the book I read was Robert Hardy's 'A Social and Military History of the English Longbow'.
While Hardy did mention that it was common practice for the English to cure staves for a year or two in running water I don't recall him mentioning saltwater. The water probably mainly serves the purpose of keeping out/killing bugs and insects while the bark is still on the stave and the wood is curing.
I would think that saltwater would tend to have damaging effects on the natural oils/cells in the wood; but this is only my opinion and not based on tests.

[MWirwicki]

I have heard tale when I lived in Florida, about driftwood and old shipwreck timbers that hurricanes would break loose and cause to come  floating ashore.  They were said to be preserved by their time in the saltwater.  They brought quite a buck when pulled out of the water, air dried and used for fireplace mantles and such.

Nevertheless, Welcome Barkspud.  We look forward to helping you in your quest.

[Barkspud]

Yep it sure does draw moisture i go through a ton off salt working in the lobster fishing industry and working with hides...i believe the thought is that the salt and minerals fill the voids in the cells creating a denser wood wich is not as prone to compressing when drawn. The oil treatments he give his bows monthly is to keep the water from becoming a issue. I know some musical instruments have salt water cured wood i believe some violins

[Barkspud]

Hrothgar i belive thats the very ship wreck he mentioned i'm not 100% sure but we talk every morning so i'll ask. I don't know squat about this stuff but i know there's plenty here to learn. Im going to have fun doing it and i hope i find the answer..

[George Tsoukalas]

Barkspud, welcome to PA. Jawge

[Badger]

  The ship wreck is likely the Mary Rose. One possibility about salt curing might be that salt being hydroscopic draws moisture out of the wood and stores it in the salt. Really only the belly fibers affected uch by mopisture but I guess it is possible.

[Prarie Bowyer]

Errr.  I know I came across a product that was designed for antiquities restoration.  Removing them fromt eh salt water put decay into hyperdrive and a whole process was developed for getting the items, which I thought were wood and semi precious metals, out of the water and under glass.  What the heck is the name of that chemical.  Tree carvers use it now to displace moisture in green wood and carve it. 

Why couldn't you just pack the stave in a tube of rock salt.  Why is the moisture needed in submerging the stave?  If you want to drive moisture out that should do it.  BUT you need to be careful about drying it too quickly I'd think.  I've dried carving blocks in the microwave by using umpteen million short sessions on 1/2 pwr till the weight stopped dropping when weighted.  So speed drying is possible.


I'd think a solar Kiln would be a better option OR store it near a boiler heater or something for a few weeks.  If you get into this you'll start cutting wood.  Then you'll get a bigger stash than bows you can make . . . so slow air drying isn't an issue any more.  Bows are drying but you haven't got time to get right on them anyway.

I'd say buy a stave or a board and start making bows, cut some wood and get it drying.  When it's ready you'll be ready.

[wasanchez]

Welcome to PA, so is the stave you are using saltwater cured, or is this something you are interested in.  I've never heard of it before, but it seems like it makes sense when you think about driftwood and such.

Walt