Other Glue options?

[Will Carothers]

I have used TBII mostly, and it seems good, but it doesnt fill gaps well and it doesnt hold handles together to well either. TBIII is the same, just waterproof. Urac is stopping production from what ive heard, and smooth on is too expensive.

Ive heard great things about weldwood's resorcinol, but i cant find anyone that sells it, the g2 epoxy also seems a little too expensive.

Suggestions, i would also like ideas on glue up without that many clamps, (or innertubes because titebond needs air) what aboud a form with pags for strapping and clamping with string

[JW_Halverson]

Bubble gum and baling wire?   

Two part epoxies can be fairly good at filling gaps, but I've always figured on spending more time getting a good wood to wood fit than filling gaps. 

[Pat B]

Weldwood Plastic Resin is a urea glue similar to Urac, is cheap(about $8 for a 1# tub of dry powder), mixes with water and has gap filling properties just like urac. I've used it on a few backed bows, multi-lam bows and handle risers and never had a failure.
  TB glues will hold handles if the bow doesn't bend at the handle. You might not feel the bend but the handle wouldn't pop off if it wasn't bending. 

[mikekeswick]

Weldwood Plastic Resin is a urea glue similar to Urac, is cheap(about $8 for a 1# tub of dry powder), mixes with water and has gap filling properties just like urac. I've used it on a few backed bows, multi-lam bows and handle risers and never had a failure.
  TB glues will hold handles if the bow doesn't bend at the handle. You might not feel the bend but the handle wouldn't pop off if it wasn't bending. 

2nd the bit about handles popping off. Either use a thicker intial cut or a power lam to ensure no bending.
TB3 needs pretty much perfect surfaces for the best bond. Remember that 'gap filling' is a commonly mis-used term regarding glues...it doesn't really relate to being able to fill gaps left by poor prep of the lams (although they can to a degree) more than it needs a keyed surface to work effectively.
Resourcinol is excellent glue and available from the here in the uk but I suppose postage might be prohibitive.

[Prarie Bowyer]

Interesting to learn about the weld wood.  I'll have to try that.  Resourcinol I found by following links on Amazon search.  Ruddery Bows sells a 2 part epoxy they call "bow grip 100".  What is greeat about it is that you can buy the quantity you need.  I suspect it's a "West systems" epoxy product and he's repackaging it BUT those are awesoe epoxies and awesomely priced for large quantities.  So he's got a sweet deal going.  I may go back to that route.

[vinemaplebows]

I agree with Pat to a point, but I am not sure about the gap filling qualities??? Pat you used it in handle splices?? I have not but will test it....I think maybe letting it set up a bit before application may help the gap issue?? I have been testing the Areo Marine 300/11 epoxy it seems very promising.


Brian

[dmikeyj]

No experience with it myself, but I have read of a few problems concerning bow grip 100.  Either read here, or at trad gang, if you want to search for the posts...

Mike

[Prarie Bowyer]

What kind of problems?  the reasons I switched to Urac from that was becasue aside from not likeing that epoxy smell Urac sets up at a lower temp and it heat safe to higher temps.  the bow grip will resoften if exposed to heats higher than the original cure.    So If you are using multiple gluing sessions then each session needs higher heat than the last and the bow needs to be secured from delaminating in some way.  I've made several bows with the bow grip and not had glueing problems.  Tiller or bad wood (lyptus) selection is a different story.

[dmikeyj]

From trad gang:

http://tradgang.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=125;t=000983#000000

"I haven't heard anything good about bowgrip 100. There are several comments on this site about it."

"I have used Bowgrip 100 with good results in the past. Bowgrip will also set just fine as long as the temp is above 75 degrees. However, no matter how careful I am I always seem to get at least a few small air bubbles between the glass and the wood."

"I use Bow Grip 100 and I have not had any problems.  It will set up 100% at 70 deg. I usually leave it for 36 to 72 hrs before removing form the form."

"I've read a few complaints about Bowgrip, but never about EA 40 or Urac. Of course complaints about Bowgrip could've been the result of poor performance due to improper mixing."

"I would stay away from that bowgrip stuff. I have read stories of people who used it and only about one in ten have had marginal success."

"I have used bow-grip 100 with good results but the mixing ratios were a little much for me and it was a little too thin and runny."

"The only failure I've had with delamination was caused by my first and last use of Bowgrip 100."

From here:

"Bowgrip, for whatever reason works for some people, I also have read a lot of people dislike it."

"Not to be ugly, but Id find another glue than bowgrip 100.  Ive made many bows with it and bake it at 160 degrees for 7 hours and then let it finish curing for 24 hours  and still experienced glue failure."


These are just some of the quotes about bowgrip 100 that I found from searches.  Not all the quotes are bad, but I've seen more bad than good.

[vinemaplebows]

Glues that are to runny can be allowed to start to set, then applied, it is not rocket science. I do this with titebond 111 when it is cooler in my shop, epoxy as well.

[Pat B]

Brian, it has been years since I spliced billets and don't remember what I used back then. I have used the Weldwood Plastic Resin for wood backings, multi lam bows and handle risers and never had a failure. I would use it just like Urac so I would use it for splicing billets.
  Brian, you might remember Alberto(Albie) from Italy that was a member years ago. He told me about the Weldwood Plastic Resin. That is what he used because he couldn't get Urac in Italy. Albie made some incredable bows back then.

[vinemaplebows]

Yep, I remember.... http://paleoplanet69529.yuku.com/reply/76310/Glues-and-Boo#reply-76310

[bow101]

I have using TBII for a while and had no failures even laminating Xbow Prods. A couple prods broke but that was becuase lack of backing, improper taper of the prod etc.....but when they broke, the glue line was still solid, they never gave way on the glued face at all.
Another big mistake is not preparing the surface's, they should always be roughed up with 60-100 grit sandpaper.

[stubshaft]

I still use Resourcinol for piece of mind.  I have had no problems with TBIII but prefer just prefer using Resourcinol.  Besides I kinda like the purple pin stripe.

[Prarie Bowyer]

Stubshaft.  do you have any pics of those seams?