Wrapping a chrysle

[Cameroo]

I agree with a lot of what Pearlie just said.  I too remember when you first joined us.  I was just a beginner myself (and still am!) and I remember seeing you turning out these bows and thinking, wow, this guy's hardcore!  It's obvious that you like to challenge yourself, and some failures and disappointments are bound to come from that.  You just have to soldier on and try to make the most from the experience.  These guys here can teach you a lot, if you're willing to listen.

I've never attempted a tri-lam reflex deflex, so you can take this with a grain of salt.  But if I was you, I'd try making the limbs slightly wider to better handle the draw weight you are looking for.  I would narrow (or remove) the maple lam and thicken the ipe.  I would also invest in a pully setup on the tiller tree, rather than using a tiller stick, to keep the stresses on the limbs to a minimum.  My bow building mentor always told me "the tiller tree is a harsh mistress".  If that's the case, I can only imagine that a tiller stick would be nothing less than a cold hard bitch 

[blackhawk]

i had missed the whole second page of this thread n wished i hadnt...anyways...

your pics tell the whole story and dont need any words to go along with them

#1. it looks like your ipe got to thin on the belly....either make the maple thinner or the boo thinner or both,and if the ipe starts getting thin then you need to start side tillering

#2. its very easy to see from your tiller pics that you grossly overdrew that bow while tillering,and the combination of my first explanation and this will fret the best compression woods everytime

mike and pearl are giving you very sound advice

patching,wrapping those is a waste of time imho...those frets are right at a high stressed spot(fades) and go all the way to your glue line with the maple...that ipe is toast man.....the best way to fix that and get a shooter out of it is to grind that ipe off and thin the maple some and glue another compresion strong wood slat on the belly(i.e. ipe,osage,yew etc..),and if you have room to narrow it id suggest that as well.

and i agree with drums about taking a few steps back and get some more simpler designs under your belt,and get some confidence in ya,otherwise its no fun and youll get so frustrated that youll stop trying to make bows altogether....i say this because of my own experience,and i went thru a couple years of trying to build bows that were over my head,and i almost stopped building bows...whew...glad i didnt do that,and im glad i went to trying way easier stuff because it gave me some confidence and made it fun instead of frustrating

[Prarie Bowyer]

I'll take a good piece of ipe over any other belly wood in a laminated bow, Period.  All ipe is not created equally however.  I'd start by making sure you choose good pieces of ipe. If you're having someone else choose your wood, I'd start by fixing that.

I must buy it mail order.

[Prarie Bowyer]

I thought of something later while on a walk.  I took that bow unwrapped and cooke dit for 4 hours last night at 150* with another bow I was gluing up.  When it exploded it was the other limb.  COmpletely no warning and at 28" AFTER arleady removing some wood from both limbs out near the tips. 

the piece that came of came off along the URAC glue line and it came completely free.  I wonder if I damaged the glue or dried out the wood and needed to let it rest to get the MC back up?


Thanks for the input guys.  I'm continuing witht he tri lams.  I've had them work barring the broking form strap failures.

[PEARL DRUMS]

That must have been it then.

[blackhawk]

        "this feels great and is soooooo much fun"

[bubby]

the most telling statement you made was"I'm just hurrying and trying to get them done", that's a poor philosophy when building bows, that's why i hardly ever build a bow for money, i don't like to rush, and i don't like to be rushed, just step back, take a breath and K.I.S.S.,  , Bub

[Prarie Bowyer]

Yea,

I'm not building from a good place.  I tried to get all my stuff laid out and error free for these after several successful ones.  then I introduced new variables that cause problems. 

I'm liking the bendy handle bows.  I've got one straight one at 60" going.  It's coming along nicely and the "Tillering gizmo" seems to be working like a charm.  I wonder if that thing works well on R/D bows.  I wouldn't think so. 

That exploded one was also pretty deep.  NOT as deep as previous ones.  But I had my tips above the high point of the center at the riser.  I think I should have added spacer blocks under it.

[blackhawk]

  yeah a gizmo doesnt fair well with R/D designs...like cam said you need a rope n pulley tiller tree....i never use a gizmo or straight edge anymore...its all done on the rope n pulley,no tiller sticks.....you will be able to see it unfold waaaaay better on a tree than a stick,and you cant see it well enough being underneath it while on your knees pulling it from a stick....

[Prarie Bowyer]

Well I loop it over the peg and step back.  Probably I should try the rope thing again.  I felt like physicaly moving a peg forced me to not push too far too fast but perhaps It only made me do it in a different way.  I also felt like watching the limbs bend I could see the fibers compressing and stressing.

[mikekeswick]

Tillering stick = wood grenade

I second what has been said. KISS

If you were ready to start selling these bows you wouldn't need to ask all these questions.
I would kindly suggest you take a step back and think about what you are doing. You are asking questions about things that should be completely sorted and well 'worked out' for somebody who sells bows.
Making bows is NOT an easy way to make money and you should remember that if a bow breaks whilst at full draw it's only luck that stops the person holding it from getting seriously hurt.
The overall quality of ipe is going down due to the way it is being used and grown today. I have it on very good authority that this situation is only going to get worse...flooring boards are made from quick grown wood (eg.cheap) nowadays. I'm not saying it's all bad but the proportion of not too great ipe is going to get higher. Try looking at greenheart.

[Dvshunter]

When I look at the full draw pics to me it looks like you have to much reflex in the handle area. With the extreme radius in your handle it is putting a lot of stress on the limbs right out of the fade. It would be difficult to get the limbs to bend smoothly out of the angled handle section.  If youare set on the design then I would try to use les reflex in your handle next time. That will make it easier to keep the limbs "flowing".  I looked and looked at the pics and while you do have a stiff spot about mid limb, I think the real problem lies in your design. Like everyone said ipe can take alot of strain and tiller imperfections. The thick boo, stiff spot in tiller and mistake In design all added up to frets. Take a look at your handle and I think you will see what i mean. Good luck on the next one.

[Prarie Bowyer]

You know what happens to me is that when something happens I loose my confidance.  I start second guessing myself or revisiting things I thougth I knew.