Working On Tillering

[Dictionary]

Here is a maple i cut about 3 weeks ago and roughed out to floor tiller. It had an irregular crown that dipped around the handle area and a couple of knots made it kinda difficult(spent like 3 hrs tillering it for some reason). This tiller isn't very good but i called it a day because i got tired of working with it  It may have a hidden hinge somewhere. Just thought i'd post. String follow was excessive for a 64 in bow pulling only 43#@28 in. The wood probably wasn't entirely dry. Im so damned impatient and plus there was maybe a slight hinge in right limb......oorr left limb. I really couldn't tell  . I really don't have the eye for these things sometimes. Once i say "well its bending good enough" then i usually just call it a day. What do u guys think

[Dictionary]

limb on left looks kinda stiff now that i think about it..... I swear i recognized it was stiff at like 20 in of draw and was rasping and rasping and rasping and the tiller just wouldn't change even after exercising it like 40 times. Also the handle isn't bending at all the way i wanted it to. I took Jawge's advice on the bendy handle bows. Start with the limbs just as you're doing a narrow stiff handled bow, then work the handle last. It seems the handle ends up not bending enough when i do this. I may start working the handle down first into the limbs. idk..shot it about 20 times, shot ok even with like 2-3 in of string follow and a somewhat uneven tiller. 43#@28

[Dictionary]

I swear i can't hardly see where a hinge is in the picture but the bow ended up developing a hinge somewhere and fretted, then broke. 

[Del the cat]

I think you are mad!
"spent like 3 hrs tillering it for some reason".
I dunno why people bust a gut trying to tiller bows all in one go or as if it's a race???
Just my opinion of course but I generally do it over a couple of days. I think you should spend at least 4 times as much time thinking about it, looking at it, and feeling it as you do removing wood.
I also start the process as early as possible and try to get both limbs moving nicely together by the time it's back to brace height. If it's not pretty good by then, you are always playing catch up.
OK it can be done in an hour... (I've made a whole bow in an hour just for the heck of it).
The bow I'm currently working on was coming back fine, and looked ok at a static bend on the tiller. I happened to take some video of me pulling down on the sting flexing it back and forth and then winching it back.
The video of it being flexed rapidly really showed where there was too much flex at one point followed by a stiff point, this didn't show on the static or slow winched video.
Some carefull work and it's looking great now.
If I had a long rope on the tiller I could get back and flex it, but it's in my garage and I can't get far enough away to see it very well. That's why I mounted a camera bracket on the wall opposite.
If you try and do it all in one go you get 'tiller blind' or 'tiller fatigue'.. take a break have a cup of tea and a slice of toast,play with the kids/cat/dog, ask the wife if she has chores you could do (just kidding about that last one  )
Anyhow, enough chat... I can sumarise by two words.
Slow down!
Del

[Del the cat]

A lot of it is getting your eye in.
Try hold ing a plate or a CD or something round up in front of you and move it back and forth to fit it's curve to the bow, that will help you see any discrepancies.
Man's eye is naturally atuned to appreciating curves...use that instinct!
Del

[Dictionary]

Del i am definitiely going to take your advice. I was getting seriously frustrated after those hours spent. I probably should have put it away for the day after about 35 minutes because after 30 minutes i was forcing myself to tiller it. I might have saved it if i had called it a day after that. I think i'll begin to spread the work over more time.

the CD idea is great too

[Del the cat]

Cheers, You are not the only one getting frustrated! I've spent all day back and forth taking video and tinkering with my latest bow to get the tiller just right. I was in danger of getting into heavy overthink and I was driving my wife nuts. I even got her to video me shooting it.
Check out my bowyers diary and you'll see the posts over the last week have all been about tillering this bow.
There's a nice video clip on the current entry.
http://bowyersdiary.blogspot.co.uk/
Del

[H Rhodes]

I broke some bows and I am sure that I will break some more, before it's all said and done.  The advice about slowing down is good stuff.  I broke a couple of my early attempts and then realized that I needed some horizontal lines to look at on a wall behind my tillering tree.  That helped a bunch.  That enabled me to see if the limbs were bending evenly or not.  The next thing that really helped me with tillering was a four inch long wooden block.....  a piece of 1 X 2 scrap wood.  Being new to tillering, I couldn't see hinges and stiff spots as well as I do now.  Sliding that little block up and down the belly of the drawn bow,  and looking at the amount of daylight that showed between the block and the belly, highlights weak spots and stiff spots.  I use a cabinet scraper way more than a rasp too....  Hope that helps.  Hell, stay with it!  Breaking bows is how we learn.

[paleryder]

I love making bows but a hate shaping the bow because it is usually when I do damage with the hatchet. I really hate tillering because it makes me crazy. Look...photograph...look...take some off a limb...rinse and repeat until I am thoroughly insane. I have no idea why I say I love making bows.  Maybe it's because my boys are still shooting bows I made for them a few years ago. Yeah, that's it. Taking it slow is great advice. It makes it much more likely that you'll get a bow in the end. May it be blessed.

[gstoneberg]

...I also start the process as early as possible and try to get both limbs moving nicely together by the time it's back to brace height. If it's not pretty good by then, you are always playing catch up.

Del said a lot of great things, but I think the above is most important.  Get your limbs bending well and evenly as early as possible.  I try to get a correct bend and balance between the limbs in the time between long sting and braced.  The whole reason I use a pulley tillering setup is so I can stand 6' from the bow and watch it bend.  Mark the stiff spots and scrape.  String it up again and repeat.  Every bow will have a time where removing wood seems to have no effect. and you're just a few inches from full draw.  Exercise more then, you're almost done and it's easiest to mess it up right there.  Your bow can go from too heavy to a kids bow in one wood removal.  Guess how I know.

In your picture I think your left outer limb looks a little stiff (unless that's where your knot is), but I'd need to see an unstrung picture to be sure.  If it's a bendy handle and the middle is straight you need to get the handle bending just a little now.  You only want a little handle bend though.  I personally try to ignore all but the largest knots and tiller through them, but most of my experience is with osage so take that for what it's worth.  Your bow has a nice bend to it already.  Has it taken any set, 3 weeks is pretty green?  You've done well.

Good luck,
George

[dwardo]

That's why I mounted a camera bracket on the wall opposite.

What a great idea! Sick of trying to find something to balance a camera on then using little chips of wood to get the ehight right... I too probably spend rediculous amounts of hours staring at a picture of the full draw before removing wood I usualy have a FD shot on my phone that i can look at when doing nawt..

[lesken2011]

I am no tillering expert, that's for sure. I am so glad to hear some of you with more experience say take your time. I had a handle pop off last week of an HBI I was working on. The bow was going so well, I hated to lose it, and spent all weekend looking at the tiller with no handle and studying posts online with options on how to proceed. I never took any wood off. Part of me said...make a decision and get it over with...either it will be bow when you're done, or it won't. The other part said of me said take your time. I was beginning to think I was just chicken...scared to make a mistake. After hearing some of you, I'm glad I was a little more patient.


Sorry Dictionary. Didn't mean to hijack your post. Sorry to hear you lost yours. My point is, I'm learning to be more patient. I hope it pays off.

[Dictionary]

...I also start the process as early as possible and try to get both limbs moving nicely together by the time it's back to brace height. If it's not pretty good by then, you are always playing catch up.

Del said a lot of great things, but I think the above is most important.  Get your limbs bending well and evenly as early as possible.  I try to get a correct bend and balance between the limbs in the time between long sting and braced.  The whole reason I use a pulley tillering setup is so I can stand 6' from the bow and watch it bend.  Mark the stiff spots and scrape.  String it up again and repeat.  Every bow will have a time where removing wood seems to have no effect. and you're just a few inches from full draw.  Exercise more then, you're almost done and it's easiest to mess it up right there.  Your bow can go from too heavy to a kids bow in one wood removal.  Guess how I know.

In your picture I think your left outer limb looks a little stiff (unless that's where your knot is), but I'd need to see an unstrung picture to be sure.  If it's a bendy handle and the middle is straight you need to get the handle bending just a little now.  You only want a little handle bend though.  I personally try to ignore all but the largest knots and tiller through them, but most of my experience is with osage so take that for what it's worth.  Your bow has a nice bend to it already.  Has it taken any set, 3 weeks is pretty green?  You've done well.

Good luck,
George

I'm a bit late in responding. But yes it was quite green even though the wood was roughed out to bow dimensions earlier on, set was excessive. Something like 2.5 inches of set or something. The handle was too stiff, the left limb was too stiff and a hinge developed in the right limb near the tips which caused it to break. A whole lot of problems. I learned a good bit from this break though.

and yes friends, i will definitely learn to be more patient when working with wood.

[PAHunter]

Now THATS what I call a tiller tree!    Looks good to me.  Maybe the right limb is bending a bit more than the left 1/2 way to 2/3rds toward the tip.  Good job!

[gstoneberg]

I'm a bit late in responding. But yes it was quite green even though the wood was roughed out to bow dimensions earlier on, set was excessive. Something like 2.5 inches of set or something. The handle was too stiff, the left limb was too stiff and a hinge developed in the right limb near the tips which caused it to break. A whole lot of problems. I learned a good bit from this break though.

and yes friends, i will definitely learn to be more patient when working with wood.

There aren't many bow woods that would take being worked hard 3 weeks after being cut.  Having said that you did a nice job getting the limbs to bend.  Should stand you well next time.  If you're going to work wood green, rough out more than one.  The first one can be drying out while you're working on the next one.  It's especially effective in summer when there are attics, garages and outside cars to server as hot boxes.  That also helps in tillering.  If you get stuck, go to another bow for a day or so.  When you come back you'll be in a better frame of mind to push through the problem. 

Good luck,
George