String Materials

[backgardenbowyer]

Not sure if this topic belongs in the "bows"section.... please move it if appropriate.

I've made most of my strings out of good old Dacron B50 which whilst it is safe and reliable never seems to stop stretching -  double loop flemish stings end up with 1001 twists in them and single loops with the nocking point continually having to be moved because they have been shortened with the timber hitch at the bottom end. I have some 452x strings on my long range ELBs to give more distance "At the Marks", and have made these with fewer strands and not had any problems - other than that I have to build up the nocking point with a lot of dental floss to compensate for the thin string.  I gave up trying to make a B50 string from my 75lbs flight/marks bow- at that kind of weight B50 just gives up and something with lower stretch is essential.  I've also made a couple of strings from Irish linen, which is wonderfully stretch resistant, but one of these broke without warning directly under the nocking point - so I'm a bit wary of that material now.

For those who are not using natural fibres what do you prefer and in particular has anyone tried B55 which appears to be similar to dacron B50 but without the exaggerated stretch.

I'm not trying to start a discussion the ethics of using natural or synthetic fibres on primitive bows - clearly some will choose to use natural fibres only whilst others will opt for the security and availability of synthetic fibres.  Here in the UK virtually all primitive and ELB shooters use synthetic strings and only a few are working with natural fibres.

Stan

[hatcha]

Hey Stan.

Earlier today I attempted to make a long, open-ended string for tillering out of B55.  I used 14 strands (maybe too much?  My previous B50 strings worked fine with 12) and it ended up practically useless.  Along with filing nocks, it just wasn't coming together for me tonight so I had to walk away before I went too far.

I'll re-watch "doin' the twist" tomorrow a couple of times, then set up for a 12 strand string.  It feels quite bulky coming out of the flemish loop though, so maybe a 10 strand string might be getter again?  Not sure if that's any help to you?

I should be able to report back better tomorrow.

Where did/do you get your Irish linen?


Steve.

[Weylin]

I use fast flight plus. It was recommended to me by the boywers that I respect the most. it has very little to no stretch.

[Del the cat]

I've been using Angel Majesty for a while, basically because it was the cheapest 'fast' string and available in a small reel (Quicks) which didn't require an overdraft to purchase it. It makes a big difference and perks up even a tired old 40# bow to give it some added zip.
I make double loop strings (continuous loop) and found I had to make 'em 1/2 inch longer than the old B50 to allow for the lack of stretch (fewer strands too of course).
Del

[bubby]

stan i've been useing b-55 for about a year and it stretches alot less than b-50 imo, use the same strand count as b-50 and feels like it as well, got mine at kustum king, Bub

[osage outlaw]

I use B-50 and usually make endless loop strings.  With my jig, I stretch the string really, really tight and leave it over night.  I haven't noticed any stretching on the bows after that.  When I use up my B-50 I'm going to try something with less stretch.

[petew]

Every bow I have gets a 10 strand DF97 string, Flemish Twist and pad the loops to 16 strands with the same material. I serve them with .030 diamondback for a good fit . These are quieter, faster, and I can shoot with lower brace heights without riping my arm apart.
Pete

[backgardenbowyer]

Thanks guys - looks like none of you go with the "fast flight breaks wood bows" legend.  I've also had no trouble with 452x except that I find it harder to work than B50 and I've made thinner strings from it because I am nervous that a normal thickness (= 12 or 14 strands of B50) string from the newer materials would be overbuilt and a possible risk to the bow.  My guess is that there is little to choose between the newer materials for our purposed - they are all low stretch.  I generally find a bow will shot a good 20yds further with a low stretch string so they must be a lot faster.  Some of the new stuff is hideously expensive!

[toomanyknots]

Did the linen brake at the timber hitch? That can happen with linen, it is better to do two loops. I think it just seems to grind down at the timber hitch knot. Linen is very good and cheaper than fast flight, I believe. It's the only thing I use. I hate b50. The stuff is quite slow and stretchy. Stringing anything 70# or over with it can be annoying, as the string has to be shorter than normal just to allow for the stretch. I used it on a 100# warbow before. Stringing that thing was like giving myself a hernia and dislocating my spine twice every time I strung it. I made a linen string for it as well, which was a snap to string it with. The best performing string I have shot was simply straight nettle fiber glued together, with no twist or anything.

[backgardenbowyer]

The linen broke directly underneath the arrow nocking point - clearly some strands had frayed out of sight beneath the serving.  The timber hitch was fine with loads of was.  I was given the linen thread by a friend who used to be a bookbinder and I wonder if it is a little old and dry - perhaps I should have made sure there was more wax on it before serving.  It is, however, the proper Barbour's Irish linen thread.

I still have a 14 linen string on my wytch elm holmegaard (44lbs).  I made this string a little thicker and it seems ok.  I prefer to use the linen on that particular bow as it is my "hardcore primitive" outfit - self bow from a local timber, natural oil finish, linen string and usually shot with hazel shoot arrows and hand cut feathers.

Stan

[toomanyknots]

You can buy good linen from a site on the internet, I will PM it to you if you want (rules of the forum say I can't unless I PM you it) of varies breaking strengths, the store is actually a fireworks store for making your own fire works.

[George Tsoukalas]

I use B50 and don't have a stretching problem past the initial break in. Anyway, to many stretches per inch could be the problem. 2-3 per inch is ideal. Jawge

[petew]

I always find it amusing when someone coments about the new FF Type meterial being expensive compared to Dacron.  With DF97 you get twice as many feet on the spool , and you use 1/3 less material.
 Pete

[mikekeswick]

I always find it amusing when someone coments about the new FF Type meterial being expensive compared to Dacron.  With DF97 you get twice as many feet on the spool , and you use 1/3 less material.
 Pete

Exactly.
B-50 just needs the stretch taking out first before putting your nocking point markers on. Brace your bow with new string put the lower limb tip on the floor and hold the upper limb tip then push backwards on the handle, sort of reverse floor tillering. You will feel the stretch come straight out and you WON'T have any problems after doing this.
The better performance of fastflight (dyneema) strings is a combination of it's much lighter weight and the lower stretch and much greater strength per strand. B-50 will break at around 30 - 35lb test , most of the fastflight strings will handle 75lbs per strand - big difference. A 50lb bow only needs 4 strands of fastflight whereas B50 is more like 9-10 for th3e same safety margin. I've got a sinew backed osage recurve that pulls 63lb and i've used a 4 strand string on it for about 6 months now - it sings but i'm only target shooting
Linen can make excellent strings but without testing the breaking strain of the strands you are just guessing when it comes to the amount of strands.
The fastflight myth regarding wooden bows is a complete load of nonsense....it came about because people were making fastflight strings with 14+ strands to get the same finished diameter of the already overbuilt B-50 strings.

[backgardenbowyer]

My understanding is that there is a difference between stretch and creep (and I'm no expert!). Creep is the permanent elongation of the string most of which occurs when it is being shot in.  You get loads of that with B50 before it settles down, but to me it seems to go on creeping with bows of any significant weight.  Stretch is the elongation under tension which springs back when the tension is removed - I've measured my B50 strings before and after bracing the bow and they stretch at least an inch just when you brace the bow, which is why you make modern material strings about an inch longer.  My guess is B50 stretches a whole lot more when you draw and loose the bow - one of the reasons why it is relatively slow -  energy must be going into the string instead of being delivered to the arrow, but I've no way checking this.  During the course of a field shoot I reckon the brace height on my B50 strings drops by as much as 3/8", which is enough for me to have to readjust the string to get a clean shot - others may be able to get away with this change.

I've tested dacron breaking strain with my bow scales multiple times and never had a strand take more than 25lbs, but I guess it depends just how you go about the test.  The linen I have breaks at around 18-20lbs so comparable to B50, but it is less consistent and occasionally a section will give up at 14lbs or so.  I've never tested any of the modern materials - breaking strain just isn't an issue.  I think I used 10 strands for the strings I made with 452x - is that too much for a wooden bow? It will need a heck of a lot of serving if you go much thinner. Recurve shooters use something like 22 strands with this small diameter stuff.