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Author Topic: First osage effort...with 15+ year old billets  (Read 7164 times)

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Offline Carson (CMB)

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First osage effort...with 15+ year old billets
« on: February 05, 2012, 12:28:09 am »
This is my first effort at an osage bow. These were given to me by my dad.  Given to him about 15 years ago by his uncle from Kansas. As you can see they are thin-ringed.  There is a big knot right in the middle of one of the billets, and a bit of twist (10 degrees) along the other.  There is also a bit of rot in the splice section of one, but I am not too concerned about that for some reason...will probably fill with glue and osage dust/shavings.  I plan to sinew-back due to thin rings.

I plan to glue up the splice soon (Urac-185), and wondered what the collective thinks about pinning the splice.  I have only spliced one bow before and it didn't require a dowel pin.  Target weight for this bow is #65.  I guess question # 1 is do I need to pin the splice?   

Question 2: Should I ignore the minor twist or go after it with dry heat?

I would normally go with my gut (which is no pin and leave twist alone), but I really want to see these billets to bow and don't have any experience with yeller wood. 

Also, does that big knot scare anybody?
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"The bow is the old first lyre,
the mono chord, the initial rune of fine art
The humanities grew out from archery as a flower from a seed
No sooner did the soft, sweet note of the bow-string charm the ear of genius than music was born, and from music came poetry and painting and..." Maurice Thompso

Offline osage outlaw

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Re: First osage effort...with 15+ year old billets
« Reply #1 on: February 05, 2012, 12:46:22 am »
Those look like some challenging pieces, but WOW, the color is beautiful.  I hope you are succesfull with them. 
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I started out with nothin' and I still got most of it left

Offline Pat B

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Re: First osage effort...with 15+ year old billets
« Reply #2 on: February 05, 2012, 01:02:49 am »
I  would not pin the splice. I think only weakens the joint. You can put an overlay over the splice to fill out the back of the handle and that should be sufficent.  I would ignore the trist for now. It may not effect anything. Are the billets down to its back ring?
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Make the most of all that comes and the least of all that goes!    Pat Brennan  Brevard, NC

Offline MWirwicki

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Re: First osage effort...with 15+ year old billets
« Reply #3 on: February 05, 2012, 01:06:59 am »
The little "rotted" spot won't be a factor.  I would ignore it.  If you use the Urac, you shouldn't have to be concerned with pinning.  Also, wouldn't worry about the twist, at this point.  Your biggest challenge will be the knot.  It looks pretty ugly on the belly side.  Perhaps if you cleaned it up a bit with a file, closer-but-not-quite-to the the final thickness (guesstimate) of the limb, we might get a better view of it.  How wide is the limb at the knot?  Also, how much "non-knot" belly wood do you have on each side of the knot. 
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Offline bcbull

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Re: First osage effort...with 15+ year old billets
« Reply #4 on: February 05, 2012, 02:14:24 am »
i would not pin it as pat says weakens the joint with urac 185 ull be fine  are the rings taken to the back yet? if not i see 2 ring s id shoot for the knot may be a lil plm like other s say ck it out  and if wide enough if it s real bad u could fill it or if soft make it with a hole in the bow dependin on how wide the billetts are  nice billets  tho  brock
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Offline Carson (CMB)

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Re: First osage effort...with 15+ year old billets
« Reply #5 on: February 05, 2012, 04:15:03 am »
Outlaw, these are definitely a challenging pair, that billet with the knot in it has this dog leg reflex kink in it right at the knot.  The wood is beautiful and the pictures do not do it justice.  Osage is a pretty wood. 

Pat B.  OK. Good to hear.  I did not want to mess with pinning the splice, so good to hear a couple votes against it.  And your overlay comment got me thinking of a really cool handle build-up I could do with elk leg bone pieces.  It is looking pretty sweet in my mind...but handle build-up is a bit far off right now.

As per Pat and Wirwicki, I will leave that twist alone.  It is mostly in the outer 1/4 of the one billet, so it should not be big a deal.

Wirwicki, here are some pics of the "belly button" all cleaned up.  I think it will hold.  It feels pretty solid. 

bcbull, The one billet is chased to a single ring but the tips don't show it as there is a couple extra inches on the tip end that were not chased...because billets have not been cut to length yet.  The ring is a little thin a couple spots. The other is still in need of ring chasing. I am going to sinew and snake skin back, but will do my best to get a good ring chased on both.  Will finish chasing the rings before glue-up. 

Thanks guys. This has helped me get back to this bow.  I had to walk away for a couple weeks.  Good to be back on it. 
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"The bow is the old first lyre,
the mono chord, the initial rune of fine art
The humanities grew out from archery as a flower from a seed
No sooner did the soft, sweet note of the bow-string charm the ear of genius than music was born, and from music came poetry and painting and..." Maurice Thompso

Offline paulsemp

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Re: First osage effort...with 15+ year old billets
« Reply #6 on: February 05, 2012, 04:59:40 am »
do not pin it, it will hurt more than help!
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Offline PEARL DRUMS

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Re: First osage effort...with 15+ year old billets
« Reply #7 on: February 05, 2012, 10:53:26 am »
I fill questionable knots and checks with CA glue, it dries quite clear and holds strong. I love working on old, nasty pieces of osage like you have there. So much to learn in one bow. It can be a problem when talking with others about the quality of staves. I think they are ALL good if there is a chance to make a bow in them!
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Offline Pat B

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Re: First osage effort...with 15+ year old billets
« Reply #8 on: February 05, 2012, 01:39:57 pm »
I'd do as Pearlie suggested and start filling that knot with super glue. You can add osage sawdust  as a filler(do this in thin layers, a little at a time to avoid voids)  and it will give the glue some color and add body to the glue. You may have to put some tape or something over the hile in the back until you get a solid level of glue.
  How does the splice line up now? You could possibly recut one side of the splice to for better allignment if needed.
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Make the most of all that comes and the least of all that goes!    Pat Brennan  Brevard, NC

Offline coaster500

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Re: First osage effort...with 15+ year old billets
« Reply #9 on: February 05, 2012, 01:49:22 pm »
Looks like a real challenge!

I'll be looking in on this one :)
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Offline Carson (CMB)

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Re: First osage effort...with 15+ year old billets
« Reply #10 on: February 06, 2012, 02:52:17 am »
Wow wow wow, Pearl watch who you are calling nasty! This is beautiful old wood...it just happens to have a couple of ugly holes in it, but then again, who doesn't ;)

Pat and Pearl, I love CA glue, but I am thinking I might leave the limb wide there and forgoe filling it.  I will "paint" a coat of CA on the walls of the crater at the least, but it feels strong enough that I can get away with leaving it as a big old limb crater. 

Pat, the splice lines up pretty good.  it looks like the string will fall center-shot off the handle as is, but I will try to get the string down the center of the handle when I remove material from the tips and maybe coach it over while tillering.  I don't know that I could spend anymore time on that splice without making it fit worse or going crazy.

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"The bow is the old first lyre,
the mono chord, the initial rune of fine art
The humanities grew out from archery as a flower from a seed
No sooner did the soft, sweet note of the bow-string charm the ear of genius than music was born, and from music came poetry and painting and..." Maurice Thompso

Offline Carson (CMB)

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Re: First osage effort...with 15+ year old billets (Update with pics)
« Reply #11 on: March 08, 2012, 09:15:31 pm »
Update on this osage bow.  Got it to low brace.  I still need to get the fades moving more.  It has proved to be a challenge to tiller, so I have just gone slow on it, relying on the scraper quite a bit.  It has taken about 3/4" set so far.  The string is just about center of the handle, which I am happy about. 

I manage to chase a ring on each billet, except I violated the ring in one spot, two rings deep.  It is just at the start of the fades (second to last pic).  I don't think it will be a problem, but I have half a mind to go sinew back it because of that and the general thin-ringed nature of this wood.  Or maybe sturgeon skins I got from steelslinger...seems wrong on osage, but I know it would look cool.

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"The bow is the old first lyre,
the mono chord, the initial rune of fine art
The humanities grew out from archery as a flower from a seed
No sooner did the soft, sweet note of the bow-string charm the ear of genius than music was born, and from music came poetry and painting and..." Maurice Thompso

Offline Carson (CMB)

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Re: First osage effort...with 15+ year old billets
« Reply #12 on: March 08, 2012, 09:20:14 pm »
Also, I filled that knot hole with CA glue and osage wood dust as Pat and Pearl suggested.  I also crammed a bunch of wood shavings into a glass jar and added denatured alcohol...looks like it might make a nice yellow/orange dye. 
« Last Edit: March 09, 2012, 12:47:09 am by CMB »
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"The bow is the old first lyre,
the mono chord, the initial rune of fine art
The humanities grew out from archery as a flower from a seed
No sooner did the soft, sweet note of the bow-string charm the ear of genius than music was born, and from music came poetry and painting and..." Maurice Thompso

Offline paulsemp

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Re: First osage effort...with 15+ year old billets
« Reply #13 on: March 09, 2012, 04:28:28 pm »
Looks good! I am sure that is a pain in the butt to tiller that one!
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Offline Carson (CMB)

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Re: First osage effort...with 15+ year old billets
« Reply #14 on: March 10, 2012, 02:34:31 pm »
Thanks Paul.  yes, it has been a little challenging.   

Do any of you osage guys think those ring violations in the fade are a concern?
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"The bow is the old first lyre,
the mono chord, the initial rune of fine art
The humanities grew out from archery as a flower from a seed
No sooner did the soft, sweet note of the bow-string charm the ear of genius than music was born, and from music came poetry and painting and..." Maurice Thompso
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