couple of noob questions

[triggerfinger]

I have successfully made 2 hickory bows now, 1 without any help!  But now I wanna make one out of some osage I have.  Two of my staves are out of my level of ability (see gstoneberg), one has a little knot on the side that I think will be right in the way and wreck the stave and the last one is very nice with about 4" of reflex.  It has a few knots but I think I can get around them.  Anyhow I tried to chase a ring the other day and am having a ton of difficulty spotting the ring Im wanting from the back of the bow. I have selected the ring I want, but cant see where one ring starts and the other ends.  Are there any tricks for this I need to know.  I sanded the edges of the stave on a belt sander to get a clearer view but still cannot really discern the different rings, the end grain is obviously easy but every other angle seems much harder.

Also,   due to lack of design experience I guess Im gonna build the osage flat bow design in TBB1  But my stave is being particularly tough to get a layout on.  Getting the line straight from the fades to the tips is the biggest challenge. Any advice?

[gstoneberg]

Did I send you some crooked wood?  If so, sorry about that.

Knots are overrated as problems in osage.  Most people worry waaaay too much about them.  Chasing a ring is a learned skill.  It seems hard now but it won't be long and you'll have it mastered.  Check Jawge's site for assistance, http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,15690.0.html    What tool are you going to use to chase the ring?  Draw knife?  You can post pictures of your stave if you want help with the layout.  I can go into great detail about how to chase a ring, but it's sure a lot easier to show somebody than tell them.

Good Luck,
George

[Slackbunny]

Try marking a center line vertically the whole length of the stave, and then dividing the stave into equal sections horizontally. Once you have your sections all marked out, you can just go from section to section marking out the tapers. This approach has worked well for me, especially on staves that aren't all that straight.

[soy]

I say with no reserve that George gave me the best osage I have ever laid my hands on.shure it is not pipe straight but when you get through it and hold that bow in your hands you will be forever in his debt from the satisfaction you will feel. Top notch wood from a top notch fella.
Post some pics and we will help as best we can.as far as rings go by feel first sight second1 ring at a time and it will show u how

[triggerfinger]

I did not mean to imply that I had gotten bad wood from gstoneberg, simply that he is known for working on stuff that guys lilke me would make into firewood.  I hope nobody took that the wrong way, and I am terribly sorry if it has been taken that way.  All the wood I have I cut myself and it just twisted into some stuff that gstoneberg would have made into a beautiful piece of equipment, but that I have to use for trade fodder or firewood.  Again sorry for any implications.  None were intended.

[soy]

I did not mean to sound defensive, just saying it is good wood, twists and all just be the wood trigger, be the wood.trying to give you a pep talk my friend...that is all. George has good medicine and gives it freely with osage.

[gstoneberg]

O good, whew.  I'm old enough triggerfinger that I forget who I sent wood to.  No worries here, and thanks for the compliment.  Sadly, in most cases I have to straighten crooked wood or have nothing it seems.  Fortunately, osage is pretty easy to bend.

Here are some suggestions on working a growth ring.

• Work outside in the sun if it isn't too cold where you are.  If you can't do that, experiment with types of lighting and how you position it to get ring boundaries to show up.
• Keep a damp rag handy and wipe the bow back from time to time.  A little moisture can really help show ring boundaries.  Oil will do it too, but then you'll need to remove all that oil later to get a finish to stick so I think water is better.
• For this bow, try to chase a ring, but plan on backing it with rawhide.  You can have ring violations if you back your bow with rawhide or sinew, and rawhide is way easier.
• Try changing your approach a little bit.  Instead of thinking along the lines of picking the ring you want and removing everything above it, practice removing a ring at a time and stop when you get one end to end, whether it's the one you were thinking about or not.  You can make a fine bow with a growth ring of any size and you'll get some very good practice in.
• And of course my favorite, come to Dallas and I'll show you.  Barring that, find a bowyer close and get some instruction.  Having somebody help you is by far the best way to learn.

Good luck.
George

[triggerfinger]

Thanks for the advice.  Id love to go try my hand at it right now (got a serious case of the bug)  but Im stuck in Miami til tomorrow then i gotta go to vegas for the rest of the week.   I know nobody believes me, but Id rather go work on my bow.

[crooketarrow]

  Start at one tip and go down to where so can see the edge of the ring your takeing off. Dampen it with a wet towl. This will help you see the edges. Forget the sander and get a scraper. Alot slower but this way to can keep track of the ring your working on removeing. AND YOU WON'T VOLATE THE RING BELOW THE ONE YOUR REMOVEING. Keep going a ring at a time untill you've reached the one you want for your back. Thicker the ring the easer it is to see the rings.

[crooketarrow]

  Forget about laying out a straight line. FOLLOW the curveager of the stave. Draw a center line if you need to  but like I said follow the grain of the stave. Just get the tips to line up with center of the handle. If this can't be done get it as close as you can then after I put in my handle and cut it down to bow fourm.  I heat and been it at the handle. TO LINE UP THE TIPS WITH THE CENTER LINE OF THE HANDLE.Or if it's close I just but the shelf on the side to where it makes the bow a little more center shot. For the last 15 years I limitate this when green when I had deflex so no heat is needed.

[iowabow]

When I first started I used a kitchen knife to scrape the ring off with.  This takes forever but it means that it also take a long time to make a mistake.  I started at one end making sure I was chasing only one ring as indicated by the end grain.  I worked that ring all the way to the other end.  That was the hard way but it worked for me as a beginner.   I did not have anyone to teach me how to do it.  Now when I went to TN they taught me at twin oaks to start in the middle and work one ring to the end and then do the same on the other side.   At that time I switched to the draw knife.  I found for me it was easier to hold it upside down.  Using a knife took me weeks to chase a ring but with practice I learned to chase a ring in an hour maybe two on  good flat osage using a drawknife.   The drawknife is a great time saver but requires skill that must be learned with practice. I draw lines on the edges sometimes to track a ring so I don't forget where I am at.  Sometimes I switch back to the kitchen kinfe to scrape an area I am not sure about. I am doing a lot of drawknife striping bark today so I will post photos of how I do it.