Advantages?

[Jeremy Holden]

Hello all,

Just got done looking at some beautiful pictures of a bend through the handle bow and it got me thinking.  Is there an advantage of having a bend through the handle bow versus a non bend handle?  I'm pretty sure I have a piece of osage under the tree and want to silicate advice before I start carving.  I'm also interested in opinions on the matter.  Ease of building/tillering, shooting, longevity.  Let me hear it...

-Jeremy

[Weylin]

It seems like there are trade offs in both directions and alot of it depends on the wood you are using and the overall design and performance you are going for. Tim Baker talks fairly thoroughly and objectively about the trade-offs in his section about bow design and performance in the the first traditional bowyer's bible. I'd recommend reading that in addition to taking all the good info which I'm sure will quickly follow.

[gstoneberg]

For me, the big advantage to a bend through the handle bow is that it can be shorter than a stiff handled bow for the same draw length.  Other than that, I don't have much of a preference either in shooting or building.   The tillering is a little different, but in the end they both launch arrows.  Lately I've been making short bows, but that'll almost certainly change.

George

[mullet]

Like George said, you can get a lot more out of a short, marginal piece of wood or a sapling or limb bow with a high crown.

[blackhawk]

Your enthusiasm is good but you wont know the best design for that stave untill you see it. I like both designs,but I love the feel of a bendy giving in my hand. I think bendys are much simpler and easier to make,just don't make em bend too much in the handle. Once you see your stave and can hear what its saying to you,then study study study whatever design you choose. Let us know what your stave looks like(pics required)after xmas,and im sure some folks here will let you know the best design for your stave.

[crooketarrow]

  As for me I bow hunt intensely and I've settled on a stiff handle bow shelf center shot. 4 inch's of stiff tips 3/8's,60 to 64 inchs long 1 1/2 to 1 3/4's depending on the wood and weight wanted. This will handle 40 to 65 pounds no problem. Anything heavyer YOU NEED TO GO LONGER OR WIDER.
  I shoot these type of bows best. BUCK hunting why I started building bows in the first place. I also found out when building bows for people that bows like this is far easer to transform to.

[Shaun]

Some of the advantages of bend in the handle bows have been mentioned, also when the bow comes to full draw the movement in the handle is the last thing and is an indicator that you have reached full draw as you feel it in your bow hand.

More than the handle bending or not it is the length of working limb that changes a bow's performance. Short working limb shoots a light arrow faster, a long working limb puts more energy into a heavy arrow. A compromise of these extremes is most common. We are not shooting 200 grain target arrows nor are we launching 2000 grain armor piercing war arrows. Bend in the handle designs allow an overall shorter bow with enough working limb length to shoot hunting weight arrows. Longer bows are more stable with the momentum of the limb being more , ie. it takes more effort to wave an arrow than a pencil.

[Pat B]

I have to totally agree with Shaun(and the others). It is all about the working limb in short bows. When I build a short bow(60" mol) I like to feel the handle give when I hit full draw. For me, that is at 26".  It  lets me know I'm getting all the good out of each limb.

[Jeremy Holden]

Thanks to all for the advice and recommendations.  Tomorrow I get to open an interestingly long present.  We shall see...

-Jeremy

[Traxx]

Jeremy,
There are severall advantages to the style bow,at least for me and my style of shooting.They are easier to make and tiller for me,in that,i dont have to worry about makeing a limb longer,or handle placement or positive tiller,that you see some,concerned about in static handled bows.They are generally,less complicated to lay out and tiller.
Shooting?
I actually like them better than statics,as i dont use a full contact grip and dont see the need,for all that handle and mass in a bow for my style.In my oppinion,they are less likely to create torque at or after the shot,especially when a minimal style grip is used.If a full grip is used,a buildup can be added for comfort.
Longevity?
I believe they have a better chance of long term survival,as the stress is more evenly distributed,provided they are designed and tillered properly.

[gstoneberg]

So Jeremy, any pictures of that "interestingly long present"?  Hope you had a merry Christmas.

George

[gmc]

I was pretty much following along with everyone's responses until I got to the ease of tillering part on bendy handle bows. Let me explain: as with any particular bow design it comes down to just that, design. You can make a bendy handle bow pretty simple, but to achieve good performance takes a little more work on the lower density woods and even Osage will require some extra effort for a flat bow unless you don't mind the paradox created from the wide handle area. Having said that, a cut-in, bend through the handle design will correct the paradox issue but creates more of a challenge with the tiller. I have built plenty of them and rarely do I hit them perfectly holding that inner 3rd a little stiff and still have that slight bend at full draw. Its just not easy to do and creates more time for me on the tiller tree fussing with that handle area because if don't get it right you are done. You are basically creating a pressure point died center of the bow that has to be right.

I do seem to get better performance if I can pull it off with the accuracy still leaning towards a stiff handle bow by just a little (hair bit more stable). As indicated already, the best of both worlds I seem to get with this design but its not easy to do and its certainly not easier to tiller. Now if we are talking about a straight limb bow through the handle and then the answer is yes, but not by much. It takes me twice as long to tiller a cut in, bend through the handle bow compared to stiff handles. Maybe its just me.

Onto your stave:

My advice would be to build a nice stiff handle bow first. Once you get a good bow under your belt then you can stray off the beaten path into the world of the longer power strokes. If Santa was real good to you, you might even be able to get two staves out of one. It takes very little wood to make an Osage bow. 

Hope the stave was a nice one for ya and happy new year!

[Jeremy Holden]

I did get an Osage stave for Christmas, gotta love my wife.  I'm at the firehouse today so I can't post pics till a later date.  It's taller than me (6' 1"), about 3-4 inches across what belly side would be and about 5-6 inches across the back.  Sapwood still on it and some of the bark.  The ends are sealed and it looks to have good thick ring's.  So, question one, am I looking to get to the thinner, lighter colored ring or the thicker, darker ring for the back?  And, how deep do I have to go below the sapwood?  Oh boy, this cold be dangerous...

-Jeremy

[JW_Halverson]

Get yourself down close to the sapwood and try to catch one single ring.  Sometimes you will have a ring that is part sapwood and part heartwood.  Go ahead and go one ring at a time until you have one continous ring of sapwood, all yeller is all good!

[Shaun]

Jeremy, you want to remove the white sap wood and pick a nice looking yellow ring near the top. The white line between the yellow rings are the spring or early growth. This is the material you follow with your draw knife as you "chase a ring" leaving the yellow growth ring intact. The early wood has a different "feel" as you cut along it, kinda grainy. It also sounds different as you cut it. A bright light source or sunshine helps a lot to distinguish the different rings as you work.