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Author Topic: Heat Treat / Toasting Belly  (Read 6107 times)

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Offline Lee Slikkers

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Heat Treat / Toasting Belly
« on: August 13, 2011, 07:24:27 pm »
How long do folks typically wait to start tillering and working it on the tree after they have toasted a belly on a white wood (Hickory)

Many thanks~
« Last Edit: August 13, 2011, 09:57:28 pm by Pat B »
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~ Lee

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"The last word in ignorance is the man who says of an animal or plant: 'What good is it?"
— Aldo Leopold
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Offline Elktracker

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Re: Heat Treat / Toasting Back
« Reply #1 on: August 13, 2011, 08:08:00 pm »
Lee I have never toasted the back of a bow I have heard is not good but I could be wrong. Usually after I lightly toast the belly I give my bows about three four days to re hydrate before doing any serious bending

Josh
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my friends think my shops a mess, my wife thinks I have too much bow wood, my neighbors think im redneck white trash and they may all be right on the money!!

Josh Vance  Netarts OR. (Tillamook)

Offline Lee Slikkers

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Re: Heat Treat / Toasting Back
« Reply #2 on: August 13, 2011, 08:17:39 pm »
LOL, yeah...meant belly.  I'll edit my post.
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~ Lee

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The last word in ignorance is the man who says of an animal or plant: 'What good is it?"
— Aldo Leopold
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Offline Elktracker

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Re: Heat Treat / Toasting Back
« Reply #3 on: August 13, 2011, 09:50:26 pm »
Ya Lee I dont know how humid it is where you are but if its pretty dry I would leave it for a week, thats just me

Josh
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my friends think my shops a mess, my wife thinks I have too much bow wood, my neighbors think im redneck white trash and they may all be right on the money!!

Josh Vance  Netarts OR. (Tillamook)

Offline Pat B

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Re: Heat Treat / Toasting Belly
« Reply #4 on: August 13, 2011, 09:59:27 pm »
Lee, a week would be the safest time. I have stressed toasted bows after 3 or 4 days but I think that is pushing it.

ps. I edited the title of this post from back to belly!  ;)
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Make the most of all that comes and the least of all that goes!    Pat Brennan  Brevard, NC

Offline Lee Slikkers

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Re: Heat Treat / Toasting Belly
« Reply #5 on: August 13, 2011, 10:16:31 pm »
Thanks Josh and thanks for editing my post Pat  ;D

It just rained here all day...maybe if I put it upstairs by the slider screen door it would help some?  Anyway, I'll wait more than I had planned (hate waiting but I guess I can work on another build)

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~ Lee

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The last word in ignorance is the man who says of an animal or plant: 'What good is it?"
— Aldo Leopold
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Offline Eric Garza

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Re: Heat Treat / Toasting Belly
« Reply #6 on: August 13, 2011, 11:48:27 pm »
When I've heat-treated in the summer when it's humid I've started tillering in a day or two. I wait a week in winter, when it's drier. But keep in mind that I make light bows, up to 50 pounds at the most, so mine are under much less stress than those made by many here. I'd let it rest for a week just to be on the safe side.
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Offline Prarie Bowyer

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Re: Heat Treat / Toasting Belly
« Reply #7 on: August 14, 2011, 03:01:19 am »
What if you (1) use boiling water for the heat source?  (2) mist it with water?  I haven't done heat bending yet.  I used to make large format IPE carved signage.  Sometimes after glue up the blanks would be warped the following morning.  We would wet the blank and clamp it flat and let it dry overnight.  It nearly alwayse worked.  We were working with 2x6 lumber and put water into a spray bottle.  Soaked the surface and reclamped it.

I wonder why a power steamer wouldn't work?  I've seen steaming pans people have made for bow bending and I've seen guys trap the steam under foil over the stove to bend with.
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Offline Lee Slikkers

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Re: Heat Treat / Toasting Belly
« Reply #8 on: August 14, 2011, 09:56:49 am »
Thanks for the input and ideas guys!

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~ Lee

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The last word in ignorance is the man who says of an animal or plant: 'What good is it?"
— Aldo Leopold
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Offline Pat B

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Re: Heat Treat / Toasting Belly
« Reply #9 on: August 14, 2011, 01:20:30 pm »
When you heat treat(temper) bow wood you are drying out the wood but also solidifying the oils and resins within the wood cells. This is where the extra compression strength comes from. If you use wet heat(steam or boiling) you are adding moisture to the wood. This works for bending but not for improving the compression qualities of the wood. After you add this moisture you will have to wait at least a week for the moisture to leave the wood or you will add set and make the bow mushy until it dries out again. If your wood is unprotected while it dries out again it will chech(drying cracks) as it dries.
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Make the most of all that comes and the least of all that goes!    Pat Brennan  Brevard, NC

Offline Sidewinder

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Re: Heat Treat / Toasting Belly
« Reply #10 on: August 14, 2011, 08:45:20 pm »
Just wanted to comment that this info is all good stuff, even for those of us that have done it a few times but have not mastered it yet. Thanks for the guidance Pat.   Danny
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"You know a tree by the fruit it bears"   God

Offline Gus

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Re: Heat Treat / Toasting Belly
« Reply #11 on: August 14, 2011, 09:07:39 pm »
Thanks for this thread Lee.
Its good info for us new guys.
Especially since I've got two bows to "Toast" this next week... :)

-gus
PS. Could you send those rain clouds to Houston when you are done with 'em?
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"I taught him archery everyday, and when he got good at it he throw an arrow at me."

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Offline Gordon

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Re: Heat Treat / Toasting Belly
« Reply #12 on: August 15, 2011, 12:49:36 am »
I usually don't wait much longer than 24 hours before I resume tillering and have never had a problem - but maybe I've just been lucky so far...
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Gordon

Offline PEARL DRUMS

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Re: Heat Treat / Toasting Belly
« Reply #13 on: August 15, 2011, 02:08:29 pm »
As long as Gordon admitted it, I will too! I wait 24-48 hours max and resume tillering as well.
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mikekeswick

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Re: Heat Treat / Toasting Belly
« Reply #14 on: August 15, 2011, 05:06:15 pm »
Quote from: Pat B on August 14, 2011, 01:20:30 pm
When you heat treat(temper) bow wood you are drying out the wood but also solidifying the oils and resins within the wood cells. This is where the extra compression strength comes from. If you use wet heat(steam or boiling) you are adding moisture to the wood. This works for bending but not for improving the compression qualities of the wood. After you add this moisture you will have to wait at least a week for the moisture to leave the wood or you will add set and make the bow mushy until it dries out again. If your wood is unprotected while it dries out again it will chech(drying cracks) as it dries.

I'm interested why you think that heat treatings increase in draw weight is down to the oil and resins being altered. These are inside the wood and are only present in small quantities. The material that is doing the compression work in a bow limb is pretty much just the wood at the bellies surface , not the wood under the surface.
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