Author Topic: why copper?  (Read 3669 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline triggerfinger

  • Member
  • Posts: 170
why copper?
« on: July 19, 2011, 01:25:30 am »
just wondering why copper tools
I have nothing witty to say.......

Offline FlintWalker

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,577
Re: why copper?
« Reply #1 on: July 19, 2011, 02:04:17 am »
Ease of use.
Availability.
Consistency.
Be thankfull for all you have, because no matter how bad you think it is...it can always be worse.

Offline triggerfinger

  • Member
  • Posts: 170
Re: why copper?
« Reply #2 on: July 19, 2011, 03:10:30 am »
Why wouldnt iron, steel, brass,bronze or any other readily available metal be better?  I ask cause i reshape my PF and ishi every fifth flake or so
I have nothing witty to say.......

Offline cracker

  • Member
  • Posts: 3,123
Re: why copper?
« Reply #3 on: July 19, 2011, 09:43:58 am »
I think it's because copper is softer than some of the other things you mentioned it gets a little bit of "bite" on the stone and helps pop the flake off better. I'm sure someone more learned than I will chime in and shed more light on the subject.Ron
If we can't help each other what is the point of being here?

Offline iowabow

  • member
  • Member
  • Posts: 4,722
Re: why copper?
« Reply #4 on: July 19, 2011, 10:42:28 am »
I echo the above.  The copper is a metal with simular qualities to antler but is more dense and therfore more wt.  The other metals you mention have more wt but are so hard that they will slip off the platform and not stay with the flake as it is removed.  Later when you get better there will be a time that metal will come into play but not yet if you are new.  This is just my opinion. 
(:::.) The ABO path is a new frontier to the past!

Offline mullet

  • Global Moderator
  • Member
  • Posts: 22,911
  • Eddie Parker
Re: why copper?
« Reply #5 on: July 19, 2011, 06:24:47 pm »
 Ronnie is right, steel, brass, etc are too hard and will slide on the stone rather than dig in a little like bone and antler. When you are using steel doing edge work you are actually breaking the rock edge instead of pushing a flake.
Lakeland, Florida
 If you have to pull the trigger, is it really archery?

Offline stickbender

  • Member
  • Posts: 3,828
Re: why copper?
« Reply #6 on: July 19, 2011, 07:04:22 pm »

     Also the harder metals, steel, bronze etc, will cause excessive shock waves through the stone, and can cause the stone to fracture, or shatter internally, and when you get to that spot, it falls apart. Also the steel will tend to bounce back, where as the copper will tend not to. The Copper is softer, and will absorb some of the shock.  It will also deform, and actually grab the prepared surface, and  help to pull the flake off on percussions.  On pressure flaking it does somewhat the same thing, except that you are building up the force instead applying all at once as on percussion.  I hope this makes sense.  ;) It is my "theory", from what I have read, and from trying steel, and brass, and having the rock crumble, and finding internal fractures. :( :P

                                                                    Wayne

Offline triggerfinger

  • Member
  • Posts: 170
Re: why copper?
« Reply #7 on: July 19, 2011, 07:32:55 pm »
I knew there was a reason!
I have nothing witty to say.......

Offline Wolf Watcher

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,308
Re: why copper?
« Reply #8 on: July 19, 2011, 08:17:05 pm »
My Opinion:  Harder metals send the shock waves into the stone without absorbing some of the shock themselves.  Copper on the other hand is soft enough to grab on to the platform and absorbe some of the shock!  If you are having to reshape your ishi every few flakes then you should try some hard drawn copper or shape the copper by pounding into a four sided point on an anvil or other hard surface. You can then file the point to your desired shape.  This will harden the copper and reduce the number of times you have to reshape it. If you have no source for hard drawn copper I might be able to send you some depending on the diameter you need.   Good Luck!  A/Ho Joe
Get Close---Shoot Straight

Offline Newbow

  • Member
  • Posts: 105
Re: why copper?
« Reply #9 on: July 19, 2011, 09:19:58 pm »
You shouldn't need to be resharpening your pressure flaker anything like as often as you say.  That suggests that you are either trying to keep a needle tip on it (too sharp) or you're using very soft wire, or some combination.  The sharper the point, the finer the flake and the less pressure needed to detach it, but that can be carried too far.  If you are using copper ground wire, you can work harden it by beating out a point with a hammer on an anvil of some sort , rather than filing.  Even better, chuck one end of a length of wire in a drill with the other end secured in a vise and spin it.  The twist will harden and stiffen the wire making it wear much better.  You can then hammer out your point which you will only need to occationally dress with a file.

Offline triggerfinger

  • Member
  • Posts: 170
Re: why copper?
« Reply #10 on: July 19, 2011, 09:35:22 pm »
Im using the heaviest stuff you can get from lowes.  I did drill harden it but maybe not enough.  Maybe i should talk to wolf watcher about getting some of that stuff from him.
I have nothing witty to say.......

Offline iowabow

  • member
  • Member
  • Posts: 4,722
Re: why copper?
« Reply #11 on: July 19, 2011, 09:47:14 pm »
I use ground wire and twist it 1.5 times then hammer the tip square and file or sand for shape.  The lenght is important too long and the wire will bend.
(:::.) The ABO path is a new frontier to the past!

Offline mullet

  • Global Moderator
  • Member
  • Posts: 22,911
  • Eddie Parker
Re: why copper?
« Reply #12 on: July 19, 2011, 10:54:20 pm »
 I always hammer mine till it is reshaped and warm. then I file it. Also shaping it on a fast belt sander will harden it too, it gets hot quick.
Lakeland, Florida
 If you have to pull the trigger, is it really archery?

Offline Bill Skinner

  • Member
  • Posts: 384
Re: why copper?
« Reply #13 on: July 20, 2011, 12:07:18 am »
Never make the tip of your pressure flaker any longer than how deep you want to ram into the palm of your hand.  A really long one will flex and slip sooner or later, you had better hope you have a  new and thick palm pad when it happens.  Bill 

Offline triggerfinger

  • Member
  • Posts: 170
Re: why copper?
« Reply #14 on: July 20, 2011, 12:45:31 am »
Never make the tip of your pressure flaker any longer than how deep you want to ram into the palm of your hand.  A really long one will flex and slip sooner or later, you had better hope you have a  new and thick palm pad when it happens.  Bill

possibly the best knapping advice ive yet received.
I have nothing witty to say.......