Author Topic: 53 1/2" N2N Pyramid limbed molly...  (Read 8090 times)

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Offline toomanyknots

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53 1/2" N2N Pyramid limbed molly...
« on: July 15, 2011, 12:19:19 am »
Welp, made a red oak linen backed pyramided limbed molly. Turned out real under weight, only pulling 30# or so at 28", so I continued to cut the levers a bit till the weight hit around 50# @ 28". It was really the string tension, or lack of it, that was a problem. The limbs are very narrow for a pyramid bow, 1 1/2" wide at fades to 1/2", might be the reason for some much set. Like around 2 1/2". Here's some pics (some are from before I cut the levers down a bit...)





Pulled to 28" here. Bow is braced at 6" here. /\



This is at a 7" brace height, kinda high but I just can't stand the low string tension at a 6" brace./\



I wrapped in it linen thread soaked in tb3 around the ends of the backing, handle and lever fades.












I would have to say I was disapointed with this bow overall, horrible string tension, stacks, shoots like crud,.... eh, .... it is what it is...  ::)
« Last Edit: July 15, 2011, 12:26:07 am by toomanyknots »
"The way of heaven is like the bending of a bow-
 the upper part is pressed down,
 the lower part is raised up,
 the part that has too much is reduced,
 the part that has too little is increased."

- Tao Te Ching, 77, A new translation by Victor H. Mair

Offline hillbilly61

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Re: 53 1/2" N2N Pyramid limbed molly...
« Reply #1 on: July 15, 2011, 12:25:17 am »
I like the design. Looks good. make another longer one and lets see what it'll do ;)
I will say of the Lord,"He is my refuge and my fortress;
  My God, in Him I will trust."  Psalm 91:2

Offline dbb

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Re: 53 1/2" N2N Pyramid limbed molly...
« Reply #2 on: July 15, 2011, 12:35:24 am »
Im a rookie,but should you not be able to take som weight off those levers and gain some cast there?
Just wondering?

/Mikael
It's better to ask and look like a fool than not to ask and remain one...

Offline ken75

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Re: 53 1/2" N2N Pyramid limbed molly...
« Reply #3 on: July 15, 2011, 12:40:25 am »
toomany , you know how to build bows your only limited by your material . once you have exceeded the materials capability then it becomes what it is .

that being said full draw and profile looks good.

blackhawk

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Re: 53 1/2" N2N Pyramid limbed molly...
« Reply #4 on: July 15, 2011, 12:59:03 am »
Make it a foot longer. 2" wide min. out of the fades. With that deep of levers you could narrow most of the whole lever to a 1/4" with tie on nocks. AND MAKE IT UNBACKED AND SEND IT TO ME FOR TESTING AND JUDGING >:D



I like the design. And i love that bend. It just needs to be tweaked as you know.  ;)

Offline toomanyknots

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Re: 53 1/2" N2N Pyramid limbed molly...
« Reply #5 on: July 15, 2011, 01:27:03 am »
"I like the design. Looks good. make another longer one and lets see what it'll do"

Thank ya!

"Im a rookie,but should you not be able to take some weight off those levers and gain some cast there?
Just wondering?"


Oh you are quite right. I am sure I could. I probably will.

"toomany , you know how to build bows your only limited by your material . once you have exceeded the materials capability then it becomes what it is .
"

that being said full draw and profile looks good."

Thank ya ken. I am still learning for sure! Oh, and yes there are chrysals on the belly of both limbs, if anybody was wondering how the belly was taking that bend, they are pretty evenly distributed so if it's gonna fold I have no idea where. lol I don't think this was a very good piece of red oak either. If I left the levers longer maybe they wouldn't of developed, ..but, ..oh well. You are right. I should of not even tried to get 28" out of this short little red oak bow. I need to go get me some nice osage boards from the wood crafters or something along those lines, ...

"Make it a foot longer. 2" wide min. out of the fades. With that deep of levers you could narrow most of the whole lever to a 1/4" with tie on nocks. AND MAKE IT UNBACKED AND SEND IT TO ME FOR TESTING AND JUDGING"


I think ill take your advice hawk. It definitely need to be wider period, string tension is horrible, set it horrible,...



"The way of heaven is like the bending of a bow-
 the upper part is pressed down,
 the lower part is raised up,
 the part that has too much is reduced,
 the part that has too little is increased."

- Tao Te Ching, 77, A new translation by Victor H. Mair

Offline MWirwicki

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Re: 53 1/2" N2N Pyramid limbed molly...
« Reply #6 on: July 15, 2011, 02:25:58 am »
I like the linen thread.  Where does one get that?  Does it come in colors?

Something that "they" talk a lot about is mass.  Another way to look at it is, a 1948 Pontiac had a lot of mass.  It was very heavy, frumpy looking, hardly aerodynamic and rather slow.  An Indy car is light, sleek looking and very fast.  Your Molly has the right idea but even though the poundage is light, it looks rather heavy.  The levers are much thicker than they need to be.  As you know, they aren't supposed to bend.  The key is to get them just thick enough not to bend, no more - no less. 

I am amazed though, that the bow did survive a pull to 28".  Your tiller does look very good.  If you make it longer yet, lighten the load a bit, I'll bet it will be fast and yes, a candidate for the Red Oak Board Bow Cookoff.

Good Luck!
Matt Wirwicki
Owosso, MI

Offline RyanY

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Re: 53 1/2" N2N Pyramid limbed molly...
« Reply #7 on: July 15, 2011, 02:54:17 am »
Really impressive bend on that one. The excellent tiller, backing, and set have saved you on this one since you really pushed it. Siyah's are definitely too bulky and could be narrowed and shallowed significantly. When you say pyramid limbed molly, do you mean it's a pyramid taper to the shoulders or to the nocks? Amazing how far you pushed this one. :)

Offline Gordon

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Re: 53 1/2" N2N Pyramid limbed molly...
« Reply #8 on: July 15, 2011, 03:24:27 am »
You don't have enough working wood to handle what you're trying to do with this bow.
Gordon

Offline bambule

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Re: 53 1/2" N2N Pyramid limbed molly...
« Reply #9 on: July 15, 2011, 07:11:53 am »
As Gordon said  - the working limbs are too short.
Niedersachsen, Germany

Offline Hrothgar

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Re: 53 1/2" N2N Pyramid limbed molly...
« Reply #10 on: July 15, 2011, 09:12:48 am »
Awesome bow! Thats an impressive pull on the tillering stick.
" To be, or not to be"...decisions, decisions, decisions.

Offline toomanyknots

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Re: 53 1/2" N2N Pyramid limbed molly...
« Reply #11 on: July 15, 2011, 12:44:13 pm »
"The levers are much thicker than they need to be.  As you know, they aren't supposed to bend.  The key is to get them just thick enough not to bend, no more - no less. "

"Siyah's are definitely too bulky and could be narrowed and shallowed significantly."


Oh yeah, I see what yall are saying now,  ;D, See, they were tapered to 1/2" or so give er take  thickness and width at the tips of the levers but I ended up cutting about 4" off each end, so now all thats left is the fat bulky end. I've just been to lazy to fix,  :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: But I did go fat on this one anyway, this is actually the first molly I have made guys that has stayed together. Last one I made out of a mulberry stave that ended up being twisted at brace and therefor the lever broke eventually. (it's that lateral stability your were talking about in the other thread ryoon coming back to bite me, lol).

"I like the linen thread.  Where does one get that?  Does it come in colors?"


http://www.shopatron.com/products/category/Sport+Weight+100gr+Skeins/378.0.1.1.10932.20411.0.0.0

There ya go. I use it for alot of things. It's bleached and processed, but works all the same. The average breaking strength is around 15# per strand. I use it for bow string alot as well as binding, seems to work pretty good for both. I made a string for that mulberry warbow a couple weeks ago from linen thread. The good thing about it, is it's not all rubbery like b50, very low stretch and therefor sends arrows flying and ups string tension a bit. But unlike fast flight, it won't cut into your selfbow nocks. Which is nice. It does make a bulky string though, and 100# is probably the most you can make a string for without it being like a rope. For 50# selfbows it is great string material though.

"I am amazed though, that the bow did survive a pull to 28"."


Yeah I know, me too! LOL

"The excellent tiller, backing, and set have saved you on this one since you really pushed it."

Yeah, I think the only reason it didn't blow was the backing. Like I said the belly has got a good amount of chrysals so I don't know if eventually it will fold, as it might. Man, ryoon, now that I sit here and actually think about what you were trying to tell me yesterday in that other thread  about how a mollys limbs has to be wider to avoid set it makes sense to me, now that I am sitting here staring at the proof, LOL. 

"When you say pyramid limbed molly, do you mean it's a pyramid taper to the shoulders or to the nocks? "

Pyramid taper to the shoulders which are half an inch thick from shoulders of the levers to the tips. I thought it would be fast, but your are absolutely right about the inner limbs having to be wider to avoid set on a molly. I guess that goes back to tim baker saying inner limbs have to be wide enough to take no set. For some reason I always seem to be dumb enough to ignore stuff like that.  :P

"You don't have enough working wood to handle what you're trying to do with this bow."

"As Gordon said  - the working limbs are too short."

Well, the chrysals sure do seem to agree with you guys.

"Awesome bow! Thats an impressive pull on the tillering stick."

Thank ya! Maybe hopefully I can turn er into a good bow yet.

I was meaning to ask you guys, as I haven't ever used a heat gun for nothing and have been quite stubborn when it comes to heat treating, but was thinking about purchasing one sometime soon as sears has one on sale I noticed. I was wanting to know how you guys heat treat reflex into bows that are already shot in, if heat treating chrysals is smart at all, and if I could (or even should try) to heat treat a bow that has a tb3 glued on backing and a glued riser and levers? My goal would only be to get the string tension at brace up to satisfying as it is currently at a (asian style sorta, yes I have abused the crap out of this bow  ;D) 7" brace, and is still to weak for a 50# bow. How do you guys do it? Do you hold it in some reflex in a form or something? I heat treated an osage a long time ago which brought the weight up alot, but I just used my stovetop burner for that... Would you guys recommend against heat treating a bow with a tb3 glued on backing?

"The way of heaven is like the bending of a bow-
 the upper part is pressed down,
 the lower part is raised up,
 the part that has too much is reduced,
 the part that has too little is increased."

- Tao Te Ching, 77, A new translation by Victor H. Mair

Offline aznboi3644

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Re: 53 1/2" N2N Pyramid limbed molly...
« Reply #12 on: July 15, 2011, 03:29:47 pm »
cool experiment...ur gettin some major bend there.

Offline n2huntn

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Re: 53 1/2" N2N Pyramid limbed molly...
« Reply #13 on: July 15, 2011, 03:57:52 pm »
Your replies crack me up! ;D I think this shows you have skills . pushing that wood that far without a trip to the ER should be considered a success. i really hope you do another.
Jeff
Genesis 27: 3

Offline toomanyknots

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Re: 53 1/2" N2N Pyramid limbed molly...
« Reply #14 on: July 15, 2011, 05:55:43 pm »
"Your replies crack me up! ;D I think this shows you have skills . pushing that wood that far without a trip to the ER should be considered a success. i really hope you do another."

Thank ya huntin. I know halfeye and ken have made em way shorter than this though...

Heres a link to a video of it shooting before I cut it down to 53" and then after I cut it down:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bslmso8CXNE
« Last Edit: July 15, 2011, 06:04:53 pm by toomanyknots »
"The way of heaven is like the bending of a bow-
 the upper part is pressed down,
 the lower part is raised up,
 the part that has too much is reduced,
 the part that has too little is increased."

- Tao Te Ching, 77, A new translation by Victor H. Mair