Flipping Tips

[osage outlaw]

I tried dry heat on an 8 or 9 year old HHB stave.  Didn't work.  Cracked right across the belly. 

I tried steam on a 6 month old hickory and it worked.  I used the metal band on the belly and only had a few small splinters raise on each bend.  I had left them extra thick for just that reason.  A few seconds on the belt sander and they were gone.

I think from now on, I will use steam for all of my tip flippin'

[Lee Slikkers]

a band on the belly is almost a must, I've used a heatgun and boiled...prefer boiled.

[hillbilly61]

crooketarrow... Can you pm me a pic or post it on here wht the caul looks like?

mullet...I didn't use any oil or crisco I thought about it but got in a hurry

[dwardo]

I like to use steam early on but i work most of my staves semi-green. I often tiller out a portion of the reflex so i re-set it with dry heat when the bow is ready and near fully dry, both in a rough caul.

[Lombard]

Mark, I was thinking of you yesterday as I was heat treating and flipping the tips on an Elm bow I've been working on. So here is  photo of what's going on.

I treat the surface to be heated with Crisco, or Olive Oil. (Mark St Louis has a thread in the read only section that is helpful.)

I don't use a metal band but I do use a thin wedges of Ash.  This is the second heating, and doesn't follow a single growth ring on the belly. On the first heating the area to be bent is thicker and follows a single growth ring. Since I started doing them this way there has been no more splintering. In this example the tips are only being flipped slightly, however using the described process has worked on severe bends as well.

How is the recovery going? Not much going on here as my wife just came home from the hospital after a weeks stay, and is quietly resting in bed this weekend.

[hillbilly61]

 Thanks Dave that helps a lot.I'm going to go out and make a few now. The knee is doing good. I see thr Dr. Wed. and go from there. Praying for your wife. How's that grandson? Look forward to shooting with y'all again soon.

[Lombard]

Glad to hear the recovery is going well. Our Grandson is doing well, the little joker shot up to six foot one. Still skinny as a rail though. Sent you an e-Mail Mark, with some illustrations and photos.

[hillbilly61]

 Thanks Dave. 6'1"? Thats unreal. I don't have to worry about this one. It blew up. I'm going to post some pictures tomorrow and see if anyone can tell me why. I think the handle I added had too steep of a fade.

[Lombard]

Yeah every time he stands up, it seems he has gone up another shoe size, and we simply cannot keep enough groceries around to keep him fed when he visits.

This is what the bow looks like off of that form in the photo Mark. Of course I had to make minor adjustments to the tiller, and added some Osage overlays. I like simple sticks, and don't generally mess with overlays, however with my crooked eye, I managed to mess up the nocks, thus requiring some sort of remedy.

[4est Trekker]

When you're tempering the wood, heat alone is fine.  However, when trying to manipulate the shape, you NEED to use something like oil as you heat the wood to keep it from drying and failing when bent.  I prefer olive oil.  The oil also helps the heat penetrate further and holds it in longer.  Also, keep the gun moving, round ALL edges (so they don't burn), make sure your caul is narrower than the bow so it doesn't trap heat under the back, and use a backing strip.  Hope that helps. 

[Carle1953]

I have found that sometimes with a particulary stubborn piece of osage the weight of the bow alone is not enough to make it bend.  I use a 12" cresent wrench with a couple of 1 1/2" nuts tied to it for weight.  I have had the belly side split open on a growth ring.  I leave my tips 5/8" thick and the same wide. I also always round the corners a little on the belly side.  I use olive oil and a heat gun for all bending.  Don't forget to use oil on the back also.  I didn't on one osage staff and it developed lateral cracks.  The stave had been seasoning for 2 years.  You can drive moisture out as you heat and osage will develop cracks down the length of the back.  When this happens get your superglue out and fill them.  Enjoy all bow building activity even if it ends up in destruction.  Some of the best lessons are learned from destructive processes.  " Oh, sh****t, I am not going to do that again".

[crooketarrow]

  MULLET has it right. DRY heat seasoned wood STEAM greem wood.
   
   Wish I had all the bows destoryed by heating in my youth. Number of bows  sence I quit useing heat on working parts of limbs. oooooo Everything you can do with heat you can do it when it's green. People just were'nt tault to do it this way or but the time into starting there bows this way.  A FEW PROPLE WROTE BOOKS because thats the way they do it and all newer bowyer bowyers 80'S,90'S 2000'S were taught heats the only way.

   I draw knife my staves down to just short of bow foum  and unswitst if needed and had reflex bring tips into line all while green. Green wood bends easy. My bows are half done before It's seasoned to build a bow. I know only a couple bowyers that SEASONS STAVES this way that agrees.  You'll build better more relieable bows this way.

   If I had all the staves made into fire wood by people heating bows I could never build all the bows before I died if I built one a day and I lived to be 500 . Even exsperenced bowyers ruin bows no matter if they do everything right. Remember wood is wood. And no matter how many you heat your changeing wood cells and when you do this well WOOD is WOOD . You won't say it on here  but just look at the bows you've destoryed. I READ IT ALL THE TIME.

[Bow Nut]

The proof is in the pudding.  here are some picks just to show you non believers out there what steaming seasoned wood will do this is a recurve I have built recently using steam on 3 years seasoned wood.  Steaming seasoned wood is the only way to go I have had 100 percent success so far I have recurved 4 bows now using steam and works like a charm every time just leave the limbs thick at chase a ring on the belly and steam then bend.  Oh and as I am binding I use dry heat just enough to keep the wood hot but not reduce moisture from the steam you will be seeing the other bows soon on here as they get finished up.  The first time I ever tried to recurve a cured stave I used dry heat and it was a disaster.  the 4 times I used steam I only had 2 curves splinter on me and they did not even splenter deep enough to make it half way through the ring I chased and only took 4 or 5 swipes on the beltsander to remove the splinters.  Just take your time steam them good for atleast an hour or more then take quite a bit of time bending them.

[crooketarrow]

  You ever think steaming seasoned wood is why your getting splinters. Even though your fixing them. So far you've lot lucky and the splinters were not deep that you could use your BELTSANDER. When I used to flip tips I did dozzens of bows and never got a splinter. And I SURE NEVER USED A BELTSANDER. I'M SURE YOU USE A BANDSAW TO. Not very primitive AND CAN JUST SEE COUPLE INDAINS SETTING AROUND THE FIRE PASSING THE BELT SANDER AROUND. But then again I don't use flint scrapers.

  Just kidding BOW NUT each his own. I was just taught not to use power tools. I was taught by my meteor that your heart and spirit will not flow into the wood like this and anything none easy is not appreciated.
 
   Build bows the way you want, your bows look fine.
 

[Bow Nut]

  You ever think steaming seasoned wood is why your getting splinters. Even though your fixing them. So far you've lot lucky and the splinters were not deep that you could use your BELTSANDER. When I used to flip tips I did dozzens of bows and never got a splinter. And I SURE NEVER USED A BELTSANDER. I'M SURE YOU USE A BANDSAW TO. Not very primitive AND CAN JUST SEE COUPLE INDAINS SETTING AROUND THE FIRE PASSING THE BELT SANDER AROUND. But then again I don't use flint scrapers.

  Just kidding BOW NUT each his own. I was just taught not to use power tools. I was taught by my meteor that your heart and spirit will not flow into the wood like this and anything none easy is not appreciated.
 
   Build bows the way you want, your bows look fine.
 

   "Wish I had all the bows destoryed by heating in my youth. Number of bows  sence I quit useing heat on working parts of limbs"  I guess that was not you that said that then since you have never had one splenter?  I have done 8 total curves and only had 2 minor splinteres that did not effect to the bow and I will use a belt sander when It comes to somthing like that.  I use draw knife and scraper to work the stave but they dont work well on an area like that.  And you might want to pick up a copy of vol. 1-4 of the bowyers bible and read what professions say about this.  Im just saying.  I will go by what I have been taught by professionals and what has proven 100 percent success for me.  I guess that is why I am still bending them.  I am new to self bows but I have build well over 100 boo and hickory laminated bows.