Performance obsession!!!

[LEGIONNAIRE]

increasingly I have become obsessed with performance criteria in bows as many of you here might have. One of the greatest factors affecting performance is set, or string follow. My question is for you guys what are the most important factors you will consider to prevent set in your bows? and to what extent does heat treating a bow help a bow that already has some string follow?

[JonW]

I feel I am nothing more than a rookie but I have found that NOT PULLING OVER INTENDED DRAW WEIGHT has worked for me rather well. I like to get the wood working real good in mid-limb before I even try to string it. Too much early stress I think is where most of us go wrong. As far as your second question, I haven't tried heat treating a string follow bow.

[Ranger B]

With selfbows every piece of wood is different as is every species. You can certainly do things to help prevent set from occurring such as stringing it right before the first shot and unstringing it as soon as you shoot the last shot, don't pull past your draw length, etc. but if you are looking longterm then yes I believe heating it and putting some reflex in it does help.  Perhaps the most effective method is to sinew back the bow.  Theoretically you can completely remove any fear of a piece of wood taking set by properly sinew backing it.  Also, some guys are fond of short bows but a longer bow is not getting stressed as badly as a short bow.  Especially if you have a 28" + draw length you need to consider a longer bow 66" + in length.  Then comes the working section of the limb.  Your design / tiller will determine how much of the limb is working during the shot.  The more of the limb that works /bends the more cast you get and the less you are stressing one small section of the limb.  However, you have to consider mass of the limb as well.  How much wood is working and where in the limb.  Hope this helps.

[toomanyknots]

I like to throw my bows in the van on a real hot day before I really start to tiller. (I don't tiller till the next day after it has cooled, of course, . )

[Kegan]

Set occurs when the wood is overstressed. Simple as that. Wet wood, thin/thick spots, or even wood that's not dense enough for the weight.

Since going to No Set Tillering, I can tiller a bow much faster and wind up with 1" of string follow or less.

As for tempering, I employ it after NST. If the bow is to be a personal hunting bow, I jsut temper it straight. This increases the compression strength, and if the bow only has 1" of set at this point it leaves it "overbuilt". That way I know that unless something really bad happens, that bow is going to be like that for as long as it holds together. If I want to increase performance, I'd temper in a little reflex. If the performance is with lighter arrows, you narrow the bow to get back to the original weight/set, but now the bow will have less mass. If you need to sling a heavy arrow better, just leave the reflex.

If a piece of wood is coming in too light (starting to take set despite no flaws in thickness at whatever weight) I temper it early and possibly sinew it. Like with a short bow. The tempering and sinew help "add mass" and keep set low, which helps little bows shoot heavier arrows.

That's just my experience and some of what I've read from those who know much more than I do

[Badger]

   The no set tillering method mentioned by Kegan is a good way to minimise set. You can start monitoring the set a bow is taking before you can visualy see it by carefully monitoring the draw weight at different points and if simply increasing the draw lenght lowers the weight of the bow. Get your tiller as close to perfect as soon as you can, as you start to draw the bow further simply measure the weight at a spcified distance say 16", now go to 17" and come back and recheck the weight at 16" now go to 18" and recheck at 16". Keep going like this until you notice a slight drop in draw weight at 16" If it starts to drop you may need to get some more limb working or possibly lighten the bow a little , after making your adjustments to tiller just start the process over at a new milestone, say 20". Steve

[crooketarrow]

   (1) Start out with the best stave you can get. The wood around knots isn't the same a clean wood. It will help with string follow.
   (2) You hve to start out with a WELL seasoned stave. On maybe's.
   (3) Never pull past your target weight. Never use more stress on your limbs you need.
   (4) Never use a tillering board with knotchs. Use one set up with a scale. So you don't leave you bow pulled and left in one place
        as you check the tiller. This over stress's your limbs.
   (5) I put my bows in a hot box a and hour or two before I work on it. But only when I'm stressing the limbs. And with woods      
        (white woods exspecially) that like to suck up the relitive humitly.
   (6) When I'm finished the bow before I put on my findle finish I also put it in the hot box for and hour.
   (7) I'm sure most people wont agree with this. But I'm sure if they'll look back at any of there older bows. After a time if shot all heated bows will end up wit a inch or 2 of string follow. Not that and inch ro so is bad it's not in a self bow. And 2 inchs a set is the number before the bow starts becomeing slugesh.
  But heat in any wood changes cells. And woods like osage can be heated to change the form with out as much damage as others but it will still develope some string follow from being heated not at first but it will with time. I've seen it in my bows as wellas lots of others. I NEVER USE ANY HEAT ON MOVING PARTS. I can here the laughs but if you build bows for a while you'll come to say ROY WAS RIGHT ALL ALONG. I WAS FRIENDS WITH SOMEONE THAT BUILT SELF BOWS FOR OVER 50 YEARS.
  I was like most when I started you could'nt build a bow with out heat. But my friend and already been there to that spot years before and knew to be true what I'm saying. I'm not saying you can't build a bow useing heat by all means you can. But it will cause alittle string follow.
  
   Any of my bows very seldom had over 1/2" of string follow. and after years will still be around and inch if they change at all.
   MOISTURE AND STRESS and KNOTS,and HEAT ARE THE THINGS THAT CAUSE STRING FOLLOW. Moisture and stress and the main reasons.

[Kegan]

  (4) Never use a tillering board with knotchs. Use one set up with a scale. So you don't leave you bow pulled and left in one place
        as you check the tiller. This over stress's your limbs.
   (7) I'm sure most people wont agree with this. But I'm sure if they'll look back at any of there older bows. After a time if shot all heated bows will end up wit a inch or 2 of string follow. Not that and inch ro so is bad it's not in a self bow. And 2 inchs a set is the number before the bow starts becomeing slugesh.
  But heat in any wood changes cells. And woods like osage can be heated to change the form with out as much damage as others but it will still develope some string follow from being heated not at first but it will with time. I've seen it in my bows as wellas lots of others. I NEVER USE ANY HEAT ON MOVING PARTS. I can here the laughs but if you build bows for a while you'll come to say ROY WAS RIGHT ALL ALONG. I WAS FRIENDS WITH SOMEONE THAT BUILT SELF BOWS FOR OVER 50 YEARS.
  I was like most when I started you could'nt build a bow with out heat. But my friend and already been there to that spot years before and knew to be true what I'm saying. I'm not saying you can't build a bow useing heat by all means you can. But it will cause alittle string follow.
  
   Any of my bows very seldom had over 1/2" of string follow. and after years will still be around and inch if they change at all.
   MOISTURE AND STRESS and KNOTS,and HEAT ARE THE THINGS THAT CAUSE STRING FOLLOW. Moisture and stress and the main reasons.

I use a tillering stick to get to brace height and so far have no issues. I don't have a tillering tree but just use the scale to tell me what my eyes never could (no set tillering).

I can understand that heat weakens the wood, and if done and left it could cause trouble, but in areas where the bow will be tempered I don't see how it's the same issue? Have you had any problems with tempered bows like that?

[Pappy]

I use a tiller stick out to brace and also heat on most all my bows and don't really have that problem
Crooketarrow,I get it to brace on a tiller stick and try and get it as perfect tiller as I can before I brace it to a short brace,the go to the tiller board,then do about like Kegan,didn't know it was called no set tiller but I guess that is what I do. I get some set of course but rarely any string follow.I heat in a couple of inches of reflex before I start and that's about it. I do go slow on the tiller board and usually tiller in 2 or 3 sessions,and keep in the hot box in between,I go to great pains to keep the wood dry ,before/during and after tillering. I found just the opposite with heat,I use to not use it,but my bows are much better now that I do. Ant been doing it for 50 years yet but have been building bow for well over 20.
   Pappy

[LEGIONNAIRE]

Thanks for the Replies, they definately help out and make sense. Most of my wood is not dried so I will employ the method were I put the stave in a hot car My trade bow was made from BL cut only 4-5 months ago max and it took some string follow despite starting out with a reflex. i was not happy with the amount of string follow it took and I think it couldve been prevented as I never went over my intended draw weight and tillered carefully.

When Im tillering the wood I can feel the fibers bend and can feel them when they will get follow, the only problem thus far has been that most of the pieces I work with are always to wet.

[George Tsoukalas]

Set happens. Jawge

[crooketarrow]

  I agree with GEORGE WOOD IS WOOD. If you want constantly you need to build lam bows. Or shoot a compound Some of the best shooting and feeling in my hand bows had a couple inchs of string follow.
 I once killed a small doe with a survile bow made out of green hickory and a knife that stayed strung when I unstrung it. Good thing I did'nt have to use it the next day. But it shot my dog wood shafe just fine.

[ken75]

i have too many other obsessions ! i just enjoy building bows , i also think the performance increases with experience.
as much as i would love to i dont have the scientific and mathmatical mind of Steve and Tim and bowyers like them, but i think with time my bows too will perform better

[Pappy]

I'm with you Ken,agree on all points. I appreciate all the guy like Badger and others and use some of there ideas if it don't get to deep for me. Other wise I just keep doing what I do. Hard headed I guess.  That is what is so cool about building wood bows, you can persue it in any way that suits you. There are a few basic rules you need to follow but other than that it's wide open.
   Pappy

[crooketarrow]

  I agree with you both I've got to many obsessions to keep up with. Your right also PAPPY build bows the way you want to I do.