Author Topic: Tudor Bodkin  (Read 18062 times)

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Offline Inuumarue

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Re: Tudor Bodkin
« Reply #15 on: March 29, 2011, 11:25:13 pm »
A lot of the same today.  Made some more waxes, the light brown ones.  We ran out of the old wax and started on a new batch of harder wax. The new stuff takes forever to solidify, but when it does its as hard as a rock.  If I time everything right i can pull it out while its still a bit pliable, straighten everything out and then dip in cold water and harden it for good.  This brings the total count of heads to 9, theres one in the mold, plus one near finished dimension wax.  So, three more makes an even dozen. I was hoping to make two, but I'll take what I can get.


Offline Ian.

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Re: Tudor Bodkin
« Reply #16 on: March 30, 2011, 10:51:56 am »
Looking very good, how thick are the socket walls?
ALways happy to help anyone get into heavy weight archery: https://www.facebook.com/bostonwarbowsbows/

Offline Inuumarue

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Re: Tudor Bodkin
« Reply #17 on: March 30, 2011, 12:56:00 pm »
About 1/16th of an inch.  From everything I've gathered its the thinnest I can go and still get fairly reliable results in metal.  They end up a few hairs thinner when the metal shrinks and then a few more after finishing.  I'll be the first to admit that I might be overcompensating thicknesses and bulk, but for a small run I want to make sure they all turn out.  Just means i have a few hours of finishing ahead of me.

Adam

Offline CraigMBeckett

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Re: Tudor Bodkin
« Reply #18 on: March 30, 2011, 10:49:19 pm »
Inuumarue,

Do you have any tools that will allow you to drill/grind out the socket walls? As Ian suggests they still look a bit too thick. If you cannot thin them, then no matter you can still fit them flush to the shaft outside diameter by making a thicker step down from the outside of the shaft to the beginning of the taper. One of the best tools to achieve this step is a small pipe cutter, take it slow as too much of a cut may cause crushing of the shaft. Please note the pipe cutter is used only to mark the position and cut the depth of the step all wood removal will need to be done using other means, knife, file, rasp, grinder etc.

Best of luck with the venture.

Craig.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2011, 11:45:33 pm by CraigMBeckett »

Offline Inuumarue

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Re: Tudor Bodkin
« Reply #19 on: April 12, 2011, 03:29:53 pm »
Craig,
I have a few tools that may do the job in brass.  If I want the socket thinner I'm going to have to do it post cast rather than before.  The wax itself has a bit of trouble at the ends of the sockets, I'd hate to have similar problems in metal by going to thin.  The pipe cutter trick just blows me away, I have plenty of them laying around, it never crossed my mind to use them for arrows.  As it stands now, I get the feeling that I'll have more than enough grinding to do to true things up and get down to weight.  A little more to thin out the socket may not even be noticed.

To all,
Sorry for my absence, classes and the general repetition have kept me from updating.  Not much has changed from the last time I posted, though i now have a full 2 dozen heads with a few extras in case something goes wrong.  The only new development has been adding the heads to a tree.  The trees are shared between multiple people, my castings will take up the bottom half of two of the four sides of the tree, when others are finished and add their waxes to the tree, the tree can have the ceramic coating put on and then we can make some more progress to casting.  I'll make sure to get you guys detailed descriptions on that part.  But here we are today.


Should have everything attached and all the little runners put on by tonight.  Also, the full story is on the link I posted earlier if you all would like to follow along there as well.

Adam

Offline Inuumarue

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Re: Tudor Bodkin
« Reply #20 on: April 20, 2011, 03:07:25 am »
Well, the process is dead in the water for a little while.  Our suppliers have been pulling the "it will be there this week" for the past month.  So we have finally hit the point of the process where we can go no further.  Our wax supplier has not delivered the wax for the gating and our furnace supplier has not delivered our furnace.  The wax shortage does not affect me for the most part, my parts were made with their sprue pre-attached, and I made my own runners and vents by hand. It does stop the rest of the class from moving from wax parts to casting tree.  What has me stopped personally is that without the furnace I can not build up and cure the ceramic shell, or melt out the wax afterwards.  So with any luck and some stern phone conversations we have a slightly more sincere "it will be there this week" that may follow through.  Either way, this pushes back the casting date to the end of April.  So I'm sorry to say it, but it doesn't look like much will be happening until late next week.  Sorry for the delay.

Best Regards,
Adam

Offline Ian.

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Re: Tudor Bodkin
« Reply #21 on: April 20, 2011, 10:13:47 am »
Thats a shame about the delay, I am intrigued to see them in action. Will you be making more to sell as it is difficult to get good light heads for heavy bows.
ALways happy to help anyone get into heavy weight archery: https://www.facebook.com/bostonwarbowsbows/

Offline Inuumarue

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Re: Tudor Bodkin
« Reply #22 on: April 20, 2011, 02:14:22 pm »
Ian,

The arrow heads from this thread will not be for sale.  The delay has given myself and my peers some serious down time, of which most have put to good use refining their parts.  There are a select few who have taken the opportunity to mass produce their parts in order to sell them down the road.  To be honest I am fairly angry and disappointed with this course of action.  The course is fully funded by the university and the fund donated to the foundry program itself. In fact this course is the most expensive course to run per student offered by the university. These funds are not self replenishing and most of the expenditure is in raw materials, be that wax rubber ceramics metal or electricity.  The amount of these materials that my enterprising peers are consuming strikes me as selfish and quite frankly greedy.  I feel that this is a unique opportunity that we have been given and the fact of the matter is that those peers that wish to profit have given nothing back to the program.   In short, I have an ethical objection to profiting from this course.

That being said, I am willing to do two things for anyone interested.  If the run turns out well, I will be willing to send off three heads to a few people to test for the cost of postage.  The number of people will depend on the number available.  I plan to keep at least six for myself and three to be finished mounted and returned to the foundry for display as a small token of gratitude. All I expect in return is a general review. Let me know what you guys think of the part quality, feel, and performance as I do not have near enough experience to judge for myself. Hell, if you wanted to pass them around, the more the merrier.
 
The second part. If interest is high enough I will discuss with the powers that be doing a few runs to be sold.  I will try to negotiate it to be a cost of materials, plus a % to be given to the foundry as a donation.  As I would perform the bulk of the work, there will not be a labor cost associated with it.  My thoughts are that anyone interested may purchase the amount of heads they want, and pay for their portion of the costs.  Then if you wish to sell some of your's you may add your profit and sell as you wish.  I will look into casting near net for those batches so that finishing will be minimized.  It may also be possible to cast those runs in a stainless steel rather than brass.  That being said, it all rides on approval from the foundry and I can not make any real promises.

My hope is that as long as both sides profit for the better it may be possible to establish a healthy business relationship that could last well after I graduate.  The thought of selling has cross my mind, and as you can see I've invested some thought into it. The bottom line is unless the foundry program benefits from it I will not sell anything.  I hope you can all understand where I am coming from.

Adam

Offline Ian.

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Re: Tudor Bodkin
« Reply #23 on: April 20, 2011, 03:27:16 pm »
I understand your problem, its very honest of you not to spin this as a venture then, if the heads go well It may be a good change to pay something back to the project. That's a good idea to have a set mounted for display. I would love to test one for you a mix of distance and armour tests. If it goes to plan I could post on the EWBS forum about ordering a big batch for everyone to make it worth your time, but as you say to early to tell yet.
ALways happy to help anyone get into heavy weight archery: https://www.facebook.com/bostonwarbowsbows/

Offline Inuumarue

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Re: Tudor Bodkin
« Reply #24 on: April 21, 2011, 02:20:54 pm »
Thanks Ian.

If the plan comes to fruition then the EWBS's support would be amazing.  I doubt that the professors and staff within the foundry would mind, but I expect that whomever handles money flow for the university might want to weigh in on the plans. I will keep anyone interested in the loop as I look into it.

As for the mounting I was planing on three full taper poplar shafts, 1/2- 3/8th, with horn inserts and bound fletches.  I was going to make a simple stand from cherry to display them.  But everything aside, I have to get everything to cast first.  If you guys are looking for more the link I posted early on has more detail of the process.

Adam

Offline peasant1381

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Re: Tudor Bodkin
« Reply #25 on: April 21, 2011, 11:31:21 pm »
They're excellent looking heads Adam, very nicely done.

Ian, wouldn't the heads have to be hand forged to be eligable for an official EWBZ flight shoot? Having said that I wouldn't mind having some if they they're affordable.

Offline Ian.

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Re: Tudor Bodkin
« Reply #26 on: April 22, 2011, 10:29:55 am »
You are right that they need to be hand forged, but I was thinking for general use and target, there aren't many good quality target heads at the correct weight.
ALways happy to help anyone get into heavy weight archery: https://www.facebook.com/bostonwarbowsbows/

Offline Inuumarue

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Re: Tudor Bodkin
« Reply #27 on: April 22, 2011, 11:05:19 am »
Well, I have a heap of bad news and a bit of good.  Bad first.  Casting is postponed until late May thanks to the constant delays and excuses we're being given.  The furnace people have come through for us, and it is on its way to arrive early next week, however its a bit more complicated of an installation than we realized. So that takes up another week of running gas and ventilation and state inspection, plus two days of training.  The wax guys seem to have fallen off the face of the earth. That with finals in two weeks when professors are not allowed to ask us to meet unless it is for a previously scheduled final.  So that pushed us back to sometime after finals in the later half of May.  More bad news, I can not use any of the university equipment for profit.  Like I expected the accounting department had something to say.  Basically there has to be pricing system in place before anything like that can happen.  And then from what was explained to me, it would be more expensive due to the high cost of the equipment.

Good news, I have found an alternative plan.  I have some contacts in the CNC department that have a pricing system in place.  I'm going to draw up a CAD pattern and core mold for sand casting and have them cut out of plastic.  Then I can make these puppies in a sand casting set up in a higher volume with more consistent results and closer to final shape than what I am working on now. I've also been given a few local foundries that would be willing to work out a deal on the casting costs.  So if the interest continues there is still hope at whatever volume is required and near any metal you guys could want.

Adam

Offline fishfinder401

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Re: Tudor Bodkin
« Reply #28 on: April 22, 2011, 01:55:28 pm »
this sounds interesting, i might be interested in a few
noel
warbows and fishing, what else is there to do?
modern technology only takes you so far, remove electricity and then what

Offline CraigMBeckett

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Re: Tudor Bodkin
« Reply #29 on: April 28, 2011, 04:18:08 am »
Inuumarue ,

Sorry to hear of your delay problems.

Ian.

Quote
I was thinking for general use and target, there aren't many good quality target heads at the correct weight.

What weight are you after? I bought some fairly decent, (needed a bit of work but not much) 1/2 inch dia cast Tudor type bodkin heads from Richard Head Longbows.

Just weighed 6 of them the weight ranged from 310 grains to 350 grains with most in the 325 to 335 grain range.

Regards

Craig.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2011, 04:26:08 am by CraigMBeckett »