Promoting bowhunting

[HatchA]

Thanks Parnell.

My apologies for blowing off steam yesterday but the guy I was counting on to help me out, seemed to be throwing up every conceivable obstacle in front of me; before I even get started talking about it.  To be fair, I did/do need to know these things but the way he blasted me with them - it didn't so much take the wind out of my sails as, ripped the mast out of the boat and stab me withe the splintery end...

He's a compound shooter.  He thinks it might be "better" to put all the "kinetic energy" info and the exact calculable performance stuff forward as examples of how effective bows can be.  I must admit to not having the first bloody clue as to what he's on about.  I go through these hallowed pages - seeing post after post of successful hunts using, not only traditional but also PRIMITIVE equipment and I think to myself "it clearly works...  what's the big bloody deal???!!?"  He's thinking that if we argue on the basis of the effectiveness of bows using a compound as an example - they might legalise "bowhunting" and we could sneak traditional bows in under cover of the encompassing umbrella, if that makes sense?

Kinda like how black powder hunting is now legal in (some of) the states in America - Rifles having a tried and tested track record; setting the groundwork for "less modern" firearms to join in.

Perhaps I'll talk with this chap in the Society, see what he's got against bowhunting and then work towards finding and providing adequate evidence in the hopes of swaying him.

Keep ya's posted.

[mullet]

What I don't understand is why you have to have this guy's permission? ???Is hunting deer controlled by some hunting club, or the Government? If he needs proof you can kill deer with Traditional bows or Primitve gear all he has to do is look on this site or Tradgangs site.

It sounds to me like smoke being blown up the proverbial Kilt so they can have exclusive rights to shooting them.

[johnston]

HatchA , I am not at all up to date with your country's laws and my comments may that ignorance.
One fact holds true for elected officials the world over and it is self evident. They have to be elected.

We have a tactic that works well and for lack of a better name call it the Big Tent Philosophy. For the most part hunters of all stripes (and weapons) form a collective body in concert against the oppressors, ie; the ones in power
opposed to hunting or shooting or any weapon in the hands of a citizen. Instead of many small factions railing you get one much larger group with a combined total greater than the sum of it's parts.

I would suggest contacting members of all shooting or game taking activities. If the groups can get along with each other it can benefit all concerned.You can then have an influence on what is done and why. You will have more resources , more contacts, more money ,and of course, more votes which is the key to change.

Ain't gonna be easy none a'tall. And the system is not perfect by any means but at least in the States it has worked.

Luck to you.

Lane

[HatchA]

Thanks Lane - it's something I've thought about but to be honest, I ain't got the first idea where to look.  I'm thinking (much as I hate it) a Facebook page for Irish Bowhunting might be a place to start...

Eddie - I'm not so much in need of this guy's permission but as he's a member of the Irish Deer Society, he's involved in the "humane management" side of things so I'm thinking if he comes around to the idea of bowhunting, then he might be a valuable asset on "my side" as it were.   

Though I think that you may be right regarding the exclusive rights thing...  I'm half hoping he doesn't actually hunt deer himself

[HatchA]

OK...  bit of an update on this...

Due to family priorities, I still have yet to meet the guy with the Deer Society but hope to do so towards the end of May.

While I've been busy with other commitments and Easter, I haven't been ignoring the task in hand completely...  I got in touch with the president of the European Bowhunting Federation (Anders Gejer) and he's given me some very good and interesting adice and info regarding what steps to take etc.  He's also connected me with Bowhunt Scotland - an organisation attempting to get bowhunting legalised there too (they are a Helluva lot further down the road than I am so I'll be paying close attention to how things develop!).

Anders also connected me with another Irishman who was in contact with the EBF last year, about the same thing!!  He (Eugene) says he's been amassing information, statistics and all that good stuff and will soon be sending it all into the governmental department in charge of hunting and fishing, etc.  I've asked if he wants to come along with me to the Deer Society guy and he says if he can't make it, he'll at least forward all the info to me to pass on.

As much help as you guys have been (and are!!), there's only so much you can do from thousands of miles away. 

Suddenly I don't feel so alone in this any more...

[JW_Halverson]

Nothing worse than being the lone prophet crying out in the vast wilderness.  I am so glad you caught the attention of like minded persons.  There will be differences of opinion, but keeping the united front lends strength to your arguments.  If you can get modern gun hunting organizations to support you, so much the better. 

Here in the U.S. the anti-hunting organizations are laughing up their sleeves as the wheel bow people fight with the gun people, the traditional muzzleloader people battle with the in-line muzzleloader people, and the primitive archery crowd (not all of you, of course) run around the whole lot sniping everyone else from the bushes! 

All of us here in the Forum are cheering for you, Hatch. 

[HatchA]

Well, as much as I dislike Facebook, I joined a group titled "Traditional Archers Ireland" (administered by someone I know personally) and posted a question:  Are you in favour of bowhunting being legalised in Ireland.

*sigh...*


I'm dealing with a bunch of phuckin' morons in this bloody country   

The ignorance is astounding.  I knew to expect a significant amount of ignorance but you'd think after they're confronted with information, quotes and facts again and again, that they'd at least stop spouting shite and keep their mouths shut if they'd nothing intelligent to say or contribute to the discussion.

It seems that's just expecting a little too much 


Anyone who wants to can search Facebook for the above mentioned group and have a read of the comments posted after the poll.  I'd appreciate honest opinions on how I came across - were my posts correct, informative and for the most part; respectful (right up until my last post yesterday).  Not sure if I can post a direct link to the page so I'll leave it for people to look it up themselves

Thanks, Steve.

[mullet]

How about starting your own Facebook page called, "Traditional Bowhunters of Ireland". Start your own group and maybe model it after the TBH clubs in the US. If you get enough members or interestd people, that builds into Political clout. You can also have 3-D shoots  with the course designed along huting situations.

[HatchA]

How about starting your own Facebook page called, "Traditional Bowhunters of Ireland". Start your own group and maybe model it after the TBH clubs in the US. If you get enough members or interestd people, that builds into Political clout. You can also have 3-D shoots  with the course designed along huting situations.

Eddie, I'm a member of Lonewolf Traditional Bowhunters and we held a shoot in Ireland last July.  All the targets were set up in natural hunting situations - stuck behind trees, down in dips, all that sort of thing.  Most of the people that came to the shoot arrived in combat/camoflage gear, army/hunting/hiking boots and carried some form of knife on their belt.  They're quite happy dressing up and playing at "weekend warriors" every now and then but can't seem to comprehend the significance of it all...

Some guy actually said "It would serve no useful purpose and bring archery in Ireland into disrepute."  I mean, seriously...  What possible evidence could he possibly have to warrant posting such a ridiculous statement?  100% personal opinion - absolutely no information to back it up whatsoever.

I ain't gonna let them get to me though   life's not worth the hassle.

I am, however, going to set up (somehow) an Irish Bowhunting Association and hopefully approach the relevant authorities etc.  Anders (president of the EBF) will be in a better position to assist us then.  It's just the setting up of the association that I ain't got a clue about   hahaha

[johnston]

Hatch I read the facebook stuff and man what a pain in the ass trying to deal with people like that!Thought you made your point with valid facts but was dismayed that the folks did not seem to even read what you said.

I am not well versed in your country's traditions but can plainly detect bigotry and it looks to me like you are facing plenty of that. A simple question about anything is just that. Simple.

You have a lot of support but the problem is that us folks at PA form the bulk of it. I agree with Eddie, if you had a club of folks that restricted  themselves by choice to primitive weapons( preferably that they had made) I don't think the commando types would be a problem.Finding those people would be the problem and they most likely ain't on facebook.
I admire you for what you are trying to do. A worthy battle for sure.

Good luck. Don't let the dog get your ash.

Lane

[HatchA]

Thanks for taking the time to read through it and then comment here, Lane; I appreciate that. 

Your last line put a big ol' smile on my face too

[RichieShakes97]

I don't know if this is being discussed but I'll give my opinion.

 I, like HatchA, live in Ireland and am a fan of archery. I think it would be a great if bow hunting was legalised in Ireland. I'd say the best way to legalise bowhunting in Ireland is to start off with maybe allowing the bowhunting of non-native and invasive species here in Ireland, and have it regulated and have proficiency tests and specific seasons to do so, make it sound like it's going to be favourable to them as much as possible. Like what Michaels Collins did with the Anglo-Irish treaty in 1921, it wasn't what Collins wanted so to speak but it gave Ireland quote "the freedom to achieve freedom". It wouldn't hurt if you had some TDs on your side perhaps.

Just my two cents.

[JackCrafty]

Interesting discussion.  I'm glad this thread was revived.

As far as I can tell, regulations in the UK prohibit any type of hunting with a bow. The only thing I can find is spearfishing in ocean waters.  Not quite bowfishing, but close.   

http://spearfishingireland.ie/regs.html

[JW_Halverson]

Still afraid the unwashed masses will rise up and throw over the nobility, I bet.  More so for the Irish.

Not sure if the term "unwashed" applies to HatchA, though, I heard he got caught in the rain last month.   

[JackCrafty]

Still afraid the unwashed masses will rise up and throw over the nobility, I bet.

Good visuals there...