Author Topic: New to...Sinew  (Read 2839 times)

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Offline Holten101

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New to...Sinew
« on: January 05, 2011, 05:25:44 am »
I have now accumulated enough sinew for one or two bows, but its new territory for me. My sinew consists of relativly short strands (max 7")...how will that do for backing (ill be carefull to get good solid overlaps)?

I plan on following the tbb guide, but are there any pitfalls not described in there?

PS: I plan on a yew bow, 54" ntn, working handle recurve, 50-55# at 28"...is that being too optimistic (I have two 48" juniper staves too)?

Cheers and thanks in advance


Offline Pappy

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Re: New to...Sinew
« Reply #1 on: January 05, 2011, 07:03:49 am »
7 inches will work fine,most I use ant any longer than that,don't need much of an overlap
Just don't leave a gap. :)
   Pappy
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Offline crooketarrow

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Re: New to...Sinew
« Reply #2 on: January 05, 2011, 09:18:52 am »
    I like to use 1/2" over lap. IFI I'iM GOING TO PUT ONE THAN ONE LAYER. MAKE SURE YOU OVER LAP THE LAP. THE FIRST IS REALLY DRY. SAME WHEN YOUR FINISHED. IF YOU DON'T IT WILL SEPERATE OR LIFT UP.
   SORRY MY CAPS LOCKED UP.
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Offline osage outlaw

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Re: New to...Sinew
« Reply #3 on: January 05, 2011, 10:00:30 am »
What kind of glue are you using? 
I started out with nothin' and I still got most of it left

Offline Holten101

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Re: New to...Sinew
« Reply #4 on: January 05, 2011, 10:09:55 am »
Thanks for the replies:-)

Outlaw...I dont know yet, but was planning to buy (alternativly make) some hide/sinew glue. Are there good alternatives (I really dont want my bows to fall apart because of wet weather;-))?

Cheers

Offline sweeney3

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Re: New to...Sinew
« Reply #5 on: January 05, 2011, 10:16:42 am »
I haven't used it with sinew yet, but I have heard that Titebond 3, watered down, works pretty well.  I know it works really well with rawhide.  I would venture a guess that that might be what Ed Scott uses on some of his bows, judging by the color on his videos. 

Offline osage outlaw

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Re: New to...Sinew
« Reply #6 on: January 05, 2011, 10:18:26 am »
I have only used knox gellatin and have had good results.  Its cheap and very simple to make.  In the TBB1, they tested glues and ranked it very high.  Whatever you use, keep it at the right temperature.  If it gets to hot, the sinew will coil up and turn to rubber and won't work.  I put my bowl of glue in a bowl of water and use an old coffe pot hot plate to keep it warm.
I started out with nothin' and I still got most of it left

Offline Holten101

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Re: New to...Sinew
« Reply #7 on: January 05, 2011, 10:29:28 am »
Hmm...I cant really buy Tite Bond III in Denmark, but from what I can see it pretty much corrospond to other water based, outdoor EN 204/205-D3 wood glues...can anyone confirm this for us europeans?

I assume the sinew should soak in warm water before its is applied with Tite Bond III?

Cheers

Offline HoBow

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Re: New to...Sinew
« Reply #8 on: January 05, 2011, 10:33:46 am »
You probably will not want to use a TBIII equivalent glue for the sinew.  You should use a hide glue to realize the full benefits of the sinew.
Jeff Utley- Atlanta GA

Offline Holten101

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Re: New to...Sinew
« Reply #9 on: January 05, 2011, 10:40:21 am »
Yeah jeffutley57...artificial glue just dont feel right;-)

How about crowning the back of the stave...I assume that is no problem when sinewing?

Cheers

Offline Pat B

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Re: New to...Sinew
« Reply #10 on: January 05, 2011, 10:55:35 am »
 Be sure both limbs are tied together with the sinew by continueing through the handle as you lay the sinew down and especially with a bendy handle bow. I didn't on the last few I made and all took set in the handle area or fades.
Make the most of all that comes and the least of all that goes!    Pat Brennan  Brevard, NC

Offline M-P

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Re: New to...Sinew
« Reply #11 on: January 05, 2011, 01:38:48 pm »
Howdy Holten,   As others have noted 7" is plenty long.  The finer you shred it the smoother your backing will be.  The backing can be applied in several ways.  The easiest for beginners is probably applying fairly small bundles in what a brick layer would call a "running bond".  Individual bundles are butted end to end ( let any tapered fibers overlap).  But columns are staggered so the seams to not line up.  The second layer is applied so the seams do not align with the under laying seams.
Some people advocate titebond glues for sinewing, but collagen glues are traditional and work better ( in my opinion.)  Rabbit skin glue is high quality and available from most art supply stores (it is used for sizing canvas before painting.)  Making your own glue from scraps of sinew & / or rawhide is simple, especially if you have a crock pot. In the US, most upper end woodworking stores/ catalogues carry hide glue.   And of course commercial gelatin (Knox®) works well too.
As an aside hide glue works well for gluing wood and has a long and successful history.  It's just fussier to use than Titebound type glues and not as water resistant.
Don't worry about your bow falling apart in wet weather, though.   I've had some failures, where I've tried to recover and reuse the sinew.  It takes hours of soaking in warm water to loosen the sinew.  If the sinew is covered with snake skin or birch bark it takes days of soaking!   
As mentioned earlier, I've had some failures when making really short bows 48" and 29" draw), but it should be possible.  At least one of my failures stemmed from not keeping things clean and dust free.  Any oils or dust will decrease the strength of the bond.   If you make your own glue, you will have to be careful to remove all grease from the glue ( the grease will form a layer on top of the gelled glue and can be scraped/ rinsed off.
Ron
"A man should make his own arrows."   Omaha proverb   

"There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves."    Will Rogers

Offline dragonman

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Re: New to...Sinew
« Reply #12 on: January 05, 2011, 05:53:41 pm »
make some hide glue from rawhide dog chews, from  any pet shop, cheap , easy, very strong , perfect for the job, way better and way cheaper than wood glue, sounds bothersome but it isnt
'expansion and compression'.. the secret of life is to balance these two opposing forces.......

Offline Holten101

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Re: New to...Sinew
« Reply #13 on: January 05, 2011, 06:03:38 pm »
Thanks all. I have decided to order ready made hide glue since my wife got this look on her face, when I mentioned boiling dog chew bones and sinew scraps for hours on end in the kitchen;-)

I cut out the blank (yew heart wood) on the band saw tonight....now I hope its good enough to make the bow I envision!

Cheers

Offline dragonman

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Re: New to...Sinew
« Reply #14 on: January 05, 2011, 06:25:11 pm »
people have the wrong idea of hide glue it doesnt smell bad when you make it yourself, the stuff you buy does actually smell very bad. Unless you are a vegetarian you'll already have animal parts in your cooking pots !!! so whats the difference, and you dont boil it, approx 70 degrees max.
'expansion and compression'.. the secret of life is to balance these two opposing forces.......