Red Osier shafts

[David Long]

Hi yall,

I'm making my first set of arrows from Red Osier shoots. They are tapered slightly but all around 3/8 ". I have not heated them yet, but they are dry after having been in a box at 85F and 35%RH for a few weeks. When I measure spine, it varies according to how the arrow is oriented. So if I spin the arrow on it's axis on the tester it measures anywhere from 500 to 600 (Easton type numbers). They're pretty straight and this has nothing to do with snake. Flexibility varies. Is this normal/common for shoot shafts? Do I just cut the nocks in each arrow so that each spines where I want them? The wood itself seems very easy to work with. No wonder Native Americans used it.

Dave

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[Pat B]

You have a good start there. You will have to remember you aren't working with machine made shafts. They do not have to be laser straight.I prefer some character in my arrows.  With the natural taper of shoot shafts they can be 10# heavier in spine weight and for each inch of shaft over 28" you can reduce the spine by 5#(add 5# for each inch under28"). So if you have a shoot shaft that is 30" long and spine weighs 75#, subtract 10# for the 2" over 28" and 10# for the natural taper and you have an arrow with 55# spine weight. Now to really confuse you(I have confused myself ) If you draw less than 28" you can add 5# per inch of draw length under 28".
  I place the shoots on the spine tester with the nock end at one upright of your tester and test that end of the shoot. I remove the excess shaft from the butt(point) end.
   I also find the stiffest side of the shaft and that is where my cock feather goes. After straightening and tempering the shaft I cut the nock perpendicular to the stiff side. fletch it and add the point. If I'm hafting a stone or trade point, I do that first before fletching.  Hope I haven't confused you too much    Pat

ps. Red osier makes great arrows.

[1/2primitive]

Uh, yeah, what Pat said.
      Sean

[David Long]

Thanks a bunch Pat.  I am unclear why you would remove material from the front of the shaft. Wouldn't you want the front heavier so that FOC remains up there? I was assuming you want the fat part of the shaft forward (tapering narrower to the rear), but is that not the case? When all is said and done and ya got them in the quiver, what are some typical diameters and spine weights you come up with? At 3/8 mine are spineing light for my 53 lb LB. Does spine go up after heating? Too many questions, sorry 
Dave

[D. Tiller]

I think the fat end goes toward the targer and skinny toward you. I'm working on my first shafts from Wild Rose here in WA. Looks really different from some of the stuff I have seen in other parts of the country. Dont know how it will come out but would like to know more about making these shafts too.

[Pat B]

Sorry I was unclear. The large end(butt) is the point end and the small end is the nock end. With a tapered shaft you automatically have weight forward. Unless the nock end is to small, I remove excess length from the front end. I never measure the diameter. I spine the shaft and remove wood with a thumb plane or sand paper to reduce the spine if necessary.  For self bows you want your shafts to be spined about 10# lighter than your draw weight. It has to get around the handle. Shoot shafts can get stiffer as they cure. Sometimes it can take a year or 2 to completely cure. Just because it is dry doesn't mean it is cured. Once cured, it will be more stable also.
  On a red osier arrow I have it is 30" long, 3/8" just behind the point and 5/16" at the nock.It shoots perfectly from my 55# to 60# bows at my 26" draw. This arrow weighs 599gr with a 125gr trade point.   Pat

[David Long]

Thanks again Pat that clears it up. I have to wonder how Native Americans got around waiting for the shoots to cure. Obviously they used them right after making them. They must have HAD to do this frequently. We know many woods make good arrows, but what strikes me about this stuff is that it appears to be pretty darned easy to work with. Except for this waiting to cure business. Maybe they just cooked them in the fire and got on with things.

Dave

[Pat B]

Like with Utzi, the Iceman they would collect as they went and only work a few at a time while the others cured in their quivers. With some materials you could heat straighten them and temper them to remove moisture. Most would check but some, like sourwood, would work.
   I collect lots of shoot shafts during the winter. I give or trade away lots of them but always have some left over from last year or before that are very dry...cured.
  Try greasing one down good and heating it up and down the shaft. Be careful at the ends because steam will come out and can scorch your hands.  You can force the moisture out the ends and the grease will prevent too much moisture loss along the shaft that would cause checking.    Pat

[D. Tiller]

Nah! They just picked them way ahead of time and had a bunch drying all the time. They had time to do stuff like that that we dont these days.

[Justin Snyder]

Uh, yeah, what Pat said.
      Sean

Since I don't know what the heck he just said I have to agree.  Just kidding Pat, good explanation.  Justin

[NorthernArcher]

I have experimented with a few different local materials, but my all time favorite is Red Osier, and I use it almost exclusively.  It really does make amazing arrows!  As for my method of processing, I usually collect in winter, peel the bark off after a week or two, and hand straighten periodically while the shoots dry.  Once they are dry enough to stay relatively straight, I bundle them up and put them away to be made into arrows the following winter.  When I first started doing it this way, I had to wait a year for the shafts to 'cure', but since I collect a new bundle every winter, I always have a year-old batch waiting to be made into arrows.

I also dowel my osier shoots so that they are 11/32" parallel, rather than leaving them tapered.  At 11/32" X 28" with a 125g point, my arrows always come out over 500g, and usually between 500-550g.  I have never used a spine tester, and find that 'spining' by hand is sufficient.  Once you figure out what your arrows should 'feel' like, it is easy to match others to that particular spine.  And Osier tends to be a very forgiving shaft material, flying true from bows of varying poundage.

[David Long]

Good stuff Northernarcher. Thanks a heap. Do you fire/heat your shafts in any way?

Dave

[NorthernArcher]

If there are any problems with keeping the finished shafts straight, I use a little heat to straighten them before finishing and fletching, but I do not use heat prior to that.  After peeling the bark, let them sit for a week or two (depending on how dry it is where you live) and then start hand straightening.  Osier will often tend to have large bends in it, but these can be easily removed during the drying process.  Give them a little hand straightening every day or so until they are dry enough to keep the shape you give them.  At this point, they should be pretty straight, and stay that way.  Once they have cured sufficiently, plane/scrape/sand them down to the desired diameter/spine and let them sit for a day or so to see if they will stay straight.  If they need any straightening at that point, use a little heat.  Just be careful not to scorth the shafts.  I usually use medium heat on the stove top, and sometimes grease the bent portion of the shaft with animal grease (shortening works as well).