RECURVES ARE NOT FAST!

[Badger]

   Something that I think is very cool but most modern bowyers won't admit to or don't realize is that many of the recent gains in performance by modern bows came from using the principles that primitive bowyers have been using for years. Reverse wedges in the outer limbs to stiffen the tips, power lams and more aggressive limb tapers for more elyptical tillers and obviously narrowing the outer limb. They have also discovered that the tiller shape needs to match the front view of the bow. We don't neccessarily use the wedges because we carve our wood into the tapers we want.
    The fastest modern bows in the world right now are about tied between the recurve and the r/d longbow hybrid. They are shooting right at 200 fps with 28" draws and 10 grain per pound arrows, 3 years ago about 190 was the fastest with the fastest primitive bows running neck and neck with them.
Primitive bow performance is not nearly as repeatable at that level and only a few specimens crop up now and then that can match that. Seems like the same bowyers are the ones that are producing those specimens so their is something to it. Steve

[Justin Snyder]

Steve, Ill bet those guys have broken more bows than most have built.

[Badger]

  Justin, no doubt, LOL. I have settled into more dependable designs with an occassional foray into the world of broken bows with hopes of breaking records. I have gotten to the point where I like a primitive bow to look like a primitive bow. As long as it performs well for it's design it makes me happy. Playing around with high performance is a good excersize I think for building good dependable bows.
   Tim Baker used to show up for our monthly meets with a stack of red oak boards. he would usually convert a couple of them into very good shooting bows by the time the day was up. Not record breakers but consistently good shooters. I always thought this is what being a bowyer is all about, getting to know wood well enough to make it behave, simple but very effective. Steve

[Josh]

  Justin, no doubt, LOL. I have settled into more dependable designs with an occassional foray into the world of broken bows with hopes of breaking records. I have gotten to the point where I like a primitive bow to look like a primitive bow. As long as it performs well for it's design it makes me happy. Playing around with high performance is a good excersize I think for building good dependable bows.
   Tim Baker used to show up for our monthly meets with a stack of red oak boards. he would usually convert a couple of them into very good shooting bows by the time the day was up. Not record breakers but consistently good shooters. I always thought this is what being a bowyer is all about, getting to know wood well enough to make it behave, simple but very effective. Steve

I really like that quote, Steve.   

[ken75]

i forgot about the whole discussion when i read someone having monthly bow building meets .... im the only idiot building these things for a couple hundred miles that i know of !

[toomanyknots]

"im the only idiot building these things for a couple hundred miles that i know of !"

Welcome to my world ken.

[NTD]

Me too...

[Pat B]

That's why we are all here on PA!    You really should have been here(in wood bow building world) 25 years ago. You think you live in a bow builder's desert now. 
 Discussions like this, with folks that have put in the blood, sweat and tears over the years are priceless but they are also what feeds the wood bow revolution. Look how far wood bows have come in the last 10 years. Look at the BOM each month. I am truely amazed at not only the numbers of incredible bows each month but the numbers of successful first timers. Most of us guys that have been around for a while screwed up lots of good wood just trying to get something that even looked like a bow.
 Practical experiences from the students of TBBI, II and III evolved into what was written into TBIV. Some of the "shocking" theries about building bows from whitewoods in those days have developed into some of the fastest wood bows and world class flight shooting bows today. Badger's Mass Principle, Marc's heat treating and even Tim Baker with his Design and Performance Revisited were all fueled by the enthusiasm generated by us; the lowly wood bow builder.
 So KEEP IT UP!!! 

[ken75]

i have to agree Pat , things really changed. and i've been trying to do my part at pushing the envolope and try new things. a year ago i couldnt make a 70 inch bow that stayed together and now im getting sub-50inchers that full draw.and trying different wood combos and apps.... and lovin every minute !!

[aero86]

ken, wish i had the time to do what youve done!  been almost a year since i started and have only made a couple 4 bows!  lol

[Aries]

i forgot about the whole discussion when i read someone having monthly bow building meets .... im the only idiot building these things for a couple hundred miles that i know of !

If you cant find em, convert em, thats been my method so far lol 

[rps3]

I have ejoyed reading this thread, that I am sure has only scratched the surface of what some of you guys know.

[toomanyknots]

"That's why we are all here on PA!  Grin  Cool You really should have been here(in wood bow building world) 25 years ago. You think you live in a bow builder's desert now.  Roll Eyes
 Discussions like this, with folks that have put in the blood, sweat and tears over the years are priceless but they are also what feeds the wood bow revolution. Look how far wood bows have come in the last 10 years. Look at the BOM each month. I am truely amazed at not only the numbers of incredible bows each month but the numbers of successful first timers. Most of us guys that have been around for a while screwed up lots of good wood just trying to get something that even looked like a bow.
 Practical experiences from the students of TBBI, II and III evolved into what was written into TBIV. Some of the "shocking" theries about building bows from whitewoods in those days have developed into some of the fastest wood bows and world class flight shooting bows today. Badger's Mass Principle, Marc's heat treating and even Tim Baker with his Design and Performance Revisited were all fueled by the enthusiasm generated by us; the lowly wood bow builder.
 So KEEP IT UP!!!"

Hell yes pat!

[acker]

 Practical experiences from the students of TBBI, II and III evolved into what was written into TBIV. Some of the "shocking" theries about building bows from whitewoods in those days have developed into some of the fastest wood bows and world class flight shooting bows today. Badger's Mass Principle, Marc's heat treating and even Tim Baker with his Design and Performance Revisited were all fueled by the enthusiasm generated by us; the lowly wood bow builder.
 So KEEP IT UP!!! 

Yes, and that´s why we are waiting for the TBB V 

Very nice words Pat B

acker

[dragonman]

recurves may not always be faster, but a good recurve produces a lot of stored energy and good string angle which makes for comfort and ease of drawing and aiming whereas a fast straight bows that gets harder to pull as you draw is not such a pleasant experience to shoot.....in my opinion