KenH style asian bow- FULL DRAW ADDED

[walkabout]

also what thickness are your siyahs, 1/2"?

[aero86]

they started out that wide.  ive been removing width as they dont need to be that thick.  ive been removing it from the tips, tapering down.  since im bored and its a long weekend, im gonna make another one.  trying a different siyah design with this one, hopefully some more weight too

[walkabout]

thanks, ive been pondering trying my hand at one too. i had thought about making one based on this page  http://www.hornbow.com/pa1098.html ,only instead of reflexing the tips before gluing on the siyahs i had thought about using the wood for the siyahs to glue in the reflex instead. i just got some wood today, so if i get one built ill post my results. best of luck to you on yours too, i was thinking you could also tiller your first one to your liking, then glue on some laminations of wood to the belly to increase your weight, similar to a normal laminate bow build approach.

[aero86]

i thought of that too, but since its red oak, anything else would handle tension better.  i did think of that though..  course the handle still hasnt popped of yet..  guess i figured that out! 

im about to start on one that will probably break.  found a piece of 6 foot red oak, and am gonna make one probably 48 inches long, with some different looking siyahs..

[JW_Halverson]

Atta boy, that's the attitude.  The more you break, the more I learn!!!   

Remember to post pics!

[aero86]

haha JW.  my siyahs are kinda small, but its just a test im doing on them, and to see if i can make one stay together from a bigger piece of wood

[aero86]

bow making these things decent weight is gonna be difficult.  idk if its because i was using just redoak, but my second attempt failed. failed a couple inches right outside of the fades.  and it wasnt bending there as much.  had been tillering the ends of the limbs.  had it pulling to 24, bending pretty good, went to pull 25, and pow.  might have been a defect in the grain..  i really think that 48 inches is kinda short for red oak to pull more than 24 or 25.  7 inches for the siyahs, 6 inch handle and fades.. so 35 inches of working limbs, 17.5 inches per limb not much compared to a 60 inch bow.  or maybe its my craftsman ship on this one. i did take this one slow, i promise!

[denny]

Aero 86 , Answer to your question is urac 185 is used between the layers of wood and your handle and syiahs. I use a rule of thumb when building a bow, to determine the length /draw . I find the middle of length i am going to build and take half the width of handle and that will be about what draw length I can expect.Example Length of bow is 60 inches. Half is 30 inches less 2 inches for a fade on a 4 inch handle /equals =28 max draw unless you really have a good design and good backing material such as bamboo or glass.You would really push to get 30 inches or more. I know there are some bows and designs out there you can do that with, but for a rule to follow, it has worked for me. A 48 inch bow would be 24 inch less 2 inch = 22 inch draw max recommended. Does that mean you can't get more? No I am just saying rule will deliver a safe working bow as a rule. Denny

[aero86]

yeah, i figured i was asking too much for my skill set, but it looked like it was going well.  maybe my width wasnt wide enough, maybe two inches would be best..

[JW_Halverson]

Denny's rule is similar to the one many of us also use...double the draw length plus 10%.  And that rule works just great for the American Flatbow, and to a lesser extent to a modified English Longbow.  But this bow design is different than what the rule generally applies to. 

This style of bow depends on highly stressed working limbs, and that's why the Turks, Mongols, Koreans, Chinese, etc backed with sinew and hide glue and often had horn bellies on these bows.  Aero86, what you are doing is what we call the "smoke test".  Like the guys who build race engines with the idea of blowing them up to see where the weak link in the design lies. 

hehehe, smoke'em if you got 'em.

[aero86]

yeah, i knew i was taking a big risk.  but ken made his work, but he used, what i believe, is a better wood for it.  but i figured if i could get as much of the limb bending as i could, i could make it work.  maybe im just horrible at tillering!  lol.  i know your waiting for me to do something great jw!  maybe if you had some good wood i could make something that you could work with!  lol

[JW_Halverson]

At one point you talked about trying the "f"word for backing.  I got to thinking about that for a while and compared it's properties to sinew/hide glue.  The "f" will not stretch, thereby forcing the belly to compress even more.  That could be a problem. 

Maybe save the sinew for a later project and try silk or light canvas backing on the limbs for the next attempt. 

[KenH]

Nice job Aero!  Good 'smoke test'.  Now go get some good wood and do it up right. 

I've been outa contact the last month, getting set up living aboard my small houseboat in Fort Myers, FL.  Anybody else in this area?

[aero86]

thanks ken, ive been looking for some wood.  got some hickory coming, might try a hickory backed redoak next.  also thinking about doing a bamboo backed bamboo bow..

[aero86]

so, another update on this one.  in an attempt to raise the draw weight a bit,ive boken it of course!  lol  heres the two things that i did

i backed the bow with hemp twine.  not the thin stuff, or the thick stuff, the stuff in between.  didnt raise the draw weight.  will probably do this again on the next bow i try, but i will use the thin stuff.

also, i got tired of trying to find a good piece of bamboo so i split a bunch of the small shafting i had, ground it down by hand, heat treated it a bit, and glued it to the back of my bow.  two things..  since i dont have a belt sander, i used a dremel, causing un-even glue lines and some seperating.  and two, i put this on the belly of this bow, hence the heat treating of it.  well, i knew i was dooming myself to failure with this one because at my handle, i didnt go up the fades, it cause a crack on the back of the bow.  its done.  buuutttt, i did learn a good way to attach the stuff to the belly, just cant do it all in one sitting.  also, i need to make up a jig of some sort, to make them uniform in width.  i know itll probably cause limb twist because the might not be uniform in thickness.  i got the idea from it basically bundle bows and taking a split piece of shaft, and seeing how far it would bend..

question..  im planning to do this again.  can i find a piece of red oak, that has just decent grain?  i plan on putting the bamboo on the back of the bow this time..