limb design discussion (revisited im sure)

[ken75]

this is something im curious about . in my opinion based on vast (almost no experience ,ive been making bows since November so i still haven't had my birthday.) i have built around 25 bows of every design i can dream up , if tillered correct with minimal set it seems to me that the most stable ,easy to shoot, most accurate and for me the fastest bows are 62 to 66 inch pyramid style limbs . i usually adjust fade width depending on wood used narrow with my ipe bows in comparison to hickory and black walnut, cherry i also keep wide. most tips on my bows will be 3/8ths so not a lot of variances there. i almost always use a four inch handle with one inch for the fades.

anyway with the years of experience and building different designs i would be happy to hear opinions from everyone on their likes and preferences in limb design.

[aaron]

well i think every design has its plusses and minuses. that is each is created for good reason, but you're asking which is accurate, easy to shoot, fast and stable. i would have to agree that given a large diameter stave, that the rigid handle pyramid at 66 inches is hard to beat. however if you throw in varaibles such as "what's best to hunt with in my particular area" or " what's the best i can do with this skinny crooked stave" , then other designs gain credibility.
my hunting bow is shorter due to the brushy  rainforest i live in- so i use a 57 inch bendy handle pyramid.
but for fun and casual target shooting, i like to make long, narrow deflex sapling bows out of the crookedest VM i can find. quickie bows i can lend out, abuse, and experiment with.

[half eye]

Hey Ken,
       I have to believe that you are pretty much correct with your assumption. If you allow that the basic pyramid is a straight taper from fade to tip I have to agree.....makes a fast bow thats stable.
       I do believe that the design also gives the most work out of the wood, but still gives good longevity.  Can't say exactly about the length though.....might have something to do with the size of the man and draw length. I'm not very tall and have some pyramid's as short as 50/52 and they shoot real good for me, but so does the 60" size. It's a darned good deign. JMO
Rich

[Pappy]

I agree it's hard to beat the pyramid limb design,we set most of our blanks up that way for the selfbow Challenge at the Classic,easy to tiller and shoot great, I will say I don't use it much on my own,I do lay out a 4 inch handle and usually about 1 to 1 1/2 inch fads and from 62 to 66 N-N.
I do most, what ever I want the limb with to be at the fads to about mid limb then tapper to the tips.
My tip wind up more like a 1/4.Don't know what this design is called so we call it a Tennessee modified homie. They are also stable,no hand shock but a little more trouble to tiller IMO. I rarely ever build a bendy handle bow unless I am using a short piece of wood or a small diameter stave or limb bow.   
   Pappy

[George Tsoukalas]

There are a lot of variables. Chief among them is the wood you are using. I let the stave determine the design. It just kind of happens. Honestly, I rarely set out to make a bow of a certain design. Pyramid bows are great bows provided they are tillered properly with a circular tiller so that the near handle wood does its share of the work. Jawge

[ken75]

thanks for all who have shared , im still new at this and plan building several hundred more before i really consider myself good , im open to all designs and i'll try most anything , just my observation so far is pyramid seems for me the best i've done. i wonder sometimes just how many locals i can infect with this bug ! i've given away a dozen and still have people asking about them

[George Tsoukalas]

25 bows in one year. Wow! I never did that before. That's great. Jawge

[Del the cat]

It depends on the size and shape of your stave...that's why I love self bows from staves.
Of course the size of staves depends on how big a tree/branch you are willing to saw through.
Biggest stuff I get is about 5" diameter, often  it's much smaller.
I've never done an even thickness, just tapered in width pyramid, mine are generally tapered in width and thickness.
Tiller wise I generally go for an arc of a circle, but have done some stiffer tip designs.
I love 'em all, I don't want to be making the same style every time. Even with an ELB you can vary the tiller.
Del

[okiecountryboy]

There are a lot of variables. Chief among them is the wood you are using. I let the stave determine the design. It just kind of happens. Honestly, I rarely set out to make a bow of a certain design. Pyramid bows are great bows provided they are tillered properly with a circular tiller so that the near handle wood does its share of the work. Jawge

Hey Jawge,
How close to "near handle" are you talking about? 1-2"? The reason I ask is that I'm going to give a oak/hic back pyramid a try. I'm wanting to go short on this one, more like a horse bow.

Thanks in advance

Ron

[ken75]

okie hopefully jawge will answer this soon but i think he is refering to the first third portion of the limb. that was one of the first problems i encountered with pyramids not enough near handle wood working and too much set

[gmc]

I don't think there is much difference among selfbow designs with regards to performance (selfbows are somewhat limiting to start with). However, I do think the pyramid limb design is easier to work. Its much easier to control limb width than tapper thickness. Of course the ability to apply correct design principle to a given wood helps, but a good quality stave to start with doesn't hurt anything either. 

[George Tsoukalas]

okie, the limbs on a pyramid should start bending right out of the fades. The tiller should appear circular. Yes, the inner third should bend more than the outer third. Be careful you don't cause a hinge out of the fade though. Jawge

[gpw]

  After making about 65 bows, have come up with two favorites ...
 For Target shooting or shooting the old foam deer, I really like a eyebrow  tall  ELB 50 lb. made from ERC with a 3/32" Hickory backing , glued up with about 4" of Perry reflex...    Very stable ,very accurate  @ 20+ yards  (target shooting range), casts my  larger barreled arrows pretty quick, no problem.   Made a few of these ... 
 For real hunting close in (stalking/ambush < 15yds)  A smaller wider pyramid bow works great with my hiding behind the tree ,crouched over  butt out hunting stance  ...  60" N2N ,2.25" wide > 3/8" tips ,  50 lbs.@ 28"     Most any good bow wood works at this width and the limbs will be thinner than a narrower  bow at the same weight ...  For camo , I just glue polyester (non primitive )  camo net over the back and sides ... becomes invisible in the woods (don't lay it down )... and I think the camo net may serve as a backing of sorts , as I apply it stretched tight and on the bias  so the threads share an equal load... ??
 Just my 2 cents of what's worked for me .... But now , i just love to find an odd limb or sapling , and whittle it away into a bow , that's mostly dictated by the wood ...  just having fun seeing what comes out ... no pre conceived notions ... Very enjoyable ...  No pressure ...   Just LOVE making bows .... arrows ... eh !!!

[sailordad]

not trying to start anything here or pic on any one buuuuuuuuuut

gpw if your bow is only "eyebrow" tall it is not an ELB
an ELB is man tall(or taller) and has a "D" cross section,plus other factors that make it a ELB

[gpw]

 Picky picky ...     eyebrow tall on me is 72"...  Good enough for me ... !!!  And the ERC allows it to be a D shape cross section , flat on the back ...  easy to work too , smells good !! Light in the hand ...