49" osage D bow advice request

[servicebeary]

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
alright, so it's bow #2, and I'm hoping to draw it 25-26 inches.  Should I expect it to survive and not take much set if I don't have a perfect tiller?  Also, the handle is 1 1/4 across.  Would anyone advise me to bring it down to 1"?  oh, and I'm trying for 50#.  Would I be a lot better off to go 45#?  Just got a string on it barely, and headed back to more floor tillering do to a hinge.      
        thanks, nick

[Josh]

If this is only your second bow I wouldn't shoot for such a long draw with such a short stave... If you are gonna make a 49 inch bow draw to 25 inches you would really need to sinew back it in my opinion...  I don't think I would draw it more than 22-23 inches without the sinew backing in my opinion.  Good luck on your bow!  Post pics of it as you go with your tiller and others on here can tell you more...  -josh

P.S.  Also I would keep the handle on this one full width if you are doing a bend through the handle design...   

[adb]

I make a lot of kid's bows, and they're 52," and usually osage. I tiller them to 20-22" with draw weights from 20-30#.

For your second bow, you're picking a tough challenge. Not something I'd do.

[KenH]

Depending on the wood, you may not need to sinew back a short bow to get 24-25" draw.  And Osage is by all accounts very forgiving.  A cloth or skin backing to prevent splinters rising might be a good idea though.  Do a Search here on "Paddle Bow" to see some of the short (under 50")  40-50# bows some of these guys have made.

[Pat B]

25" would be pushing it for a 49" bow for a seasoned bowyer, even bending all the way through the bow. Sinew backing would help but for a newbie it isn't practical. You would be better off with a longer stave and learn proper tillering...or make a miniature bow with this stave pulling about 20". The same principles as a full sized bow so you are still learning how to tiller.
A bow fully drawn is 9/10ths broken....meaning take it to its max draw(or less) for the particular stave and no farther. Another 1/4" could be it's death.

[servicebeary]

thanks for the advice.  I'm pretty determined to make this my elk stalker, but maybe I can find an anchor closer to 24 inches.  I live in dry Idaho so I wonder if a dry day would make me much more likely to break the bow?  I've got rain today so I better get it tillered:)  Sounds like 45# would be a lot safer though ehh?  Other than some snake and twist, it's a phenomenal piece of osage.  I was able to get around every single knot (other that a couple tiny pins) and the delam between a couple layers.   

[servicebeary]

thanks pat, I think it's time for me to break my first bow   I really want this bow to go, so I'm willing to take  the chance.  I've got another stave of the same length just waiting for a second try if this one fails.  Isn't the rule no more than half draw length for a D bow?  So if I'm really patient about tiller maybe I could succeed with 24" since it's such a quality piece of sage..?  Well, I've got to ask one more thing before I really get into tillering on this.
     How much of the tips should I keep stiff?  4"?  or does this call for almost whip ends to survive?   
 
      thankyou for all the warnings.  I draw lines on the sides which help me a lot with my tiller.  Wish me luck

[Pat B]

On a stave that short you want the entire stave to share the stress evenly; from tip to tip. You want the tips and handle area to bend right at the very end of the draw. You will have to finesse this as you go. Work slowly. Exercise the wood between wood removals and be very patient.
  Good luck and keep us posted.  

[servicebeary]

thankyou, and good thing I checked with you guys, I would have failed for sure otherwise.  I'm going to go shoot my 63" osage and see if I can find a comfortable way to shoot at 23" and step down my goal to 45#.  Hopefully this will buy me success.  Let me know if you think 45# is too much, I've got no problem wacking an elk with 40#, all my shots are inside 20 yards.  Took my 1X2 bull at 4 yards, wish I would have used a spear

[half eye]

servicebeary,
        I never made a stave bow, so take this for what ever it's worth. I've made at least 5/ 48" (some 47") that will draw 26-27". One that I posted was titled "if vikings had pony bows" (it's somewhere around page 7 by now) These bows were rigid handles, D bows, and Pyramid some had 4" stiff tips and some even bigger. Depending on the style of bow some will stack at about 25-26 and some not untill they hit 27".
        There is not any room for error in the eveness of your tiller, anywhere. As you go forward make an extra effort to go slow and check everything TWICE.....good luck to you man and have some fun with it (just make it slow fun, eh!)
half eye

[servicebeary]

roger that.  I've got it back almost 10 inches now, and I've got the tiller even between the limbs, but the tips are bending slightly as well.  I think that's ok since the center of the bow is yet too strong, and I've only put maybe 20 lbs of force on it so far (I'll have to check my scale), but getting this all even sounds like a challenge.  And, how critical is the side to side tiller?  If it's not twisting, then I'm ok?  I also plan on making (wish me luck) one tip twist to strait about 1/3"   Haven't tried anything that technical yet, but I think I understand the theory. 
    So I just need to make it an even bend throughout, up until full draw, and the the tips and handle bend a "little"?  What exactly is a little? hahaha,  that's where you just notice a small arc on the line that I have drawn on the side?  ;   If it wasn't so snaky this would be a lot more strait forward, but where's the fun in that?  I need to try and get a single line all the way down the bow now instead of the 4 or 5 lines I have right now    Otherwise I imagine it's hopeless that I would be able to see the progression of the bend.  I just drew the grid on the wall as well, and I'm thinking of adding another light in my shop just for this bow  
    OH!  and I lied, it's actually 50" knock to knock, and a total of 51".  I was tired when I measured it last

thanks again, -nick   

[ricktrojanowski]

I made a 52" NTN unbacked Osage that I draw to 26".  I made it in a Cherokee style, it's a flat bow that is 1 1/4" for the whole length tapering the last 1/3 of the limb to about 3/8".  You will want that entire bow bending for it to survive.  Don't save the handle for too late in the process.  Don't go crazy on it but, thin it as you go and save the tips for last.  If it survives it will be a fun bow to carry and look at but a tough one to shoot.    Good luck, keep us updated on your progress.

[1/2primitive]

On a stave that short you want the entire stave to share the stress evenly; from tip to tip. You want the tips and handle area to bend right at the very end of the draw. You will have to finesse this as you go. Work slowly. Exercise the wood between wood removals and be very patient.
  Good luck and keep us posted.  

Ditto what Pat said.

If you have good tiller, it'll survive just fine and shoot decently. If the tiller is off, the bow may not make it.
Yep, the best advice I can give you has already been said; work slowly and carefully. Take your time.
      Sean

[servicebeary]

well, I've got it drawn 18" now and I was wondering if I should even bother with a positive tiller for the bottom limb?  (not sure if I phrased that right)  and if so, how much extra bend is that measured at the tip for a bow this short, maybe 1/4" extra up top?  I have a confession, I let my brother borrow all my TBB's, and my other bow books, so I'm going to have to go get them today, a 3 hour round trip.
   Rick, that's exactly the type of bows I love, primitive North American.  This bow is exactly that, a flat bow a little over an inch wide for most it's width tapering down to about 3/8" pin nocks.       
So if I'm a gap shooter that can shoot out to 30 yards, what will this bow nock me back to?  20 yards? I've read that the natives could shoot them quite impressively and that was with a pinch grip.  Shouldn't gap shooting buy me more range than them?   

is there ever a time when the tips are slightly thicker, and thereby don't follow an even thickness taper all the way through the bow?

I know I have a zillion questions, thanks yall for all the replies!         

[Pat B]

Don't get too complicated(ie. positive tiller). Get it bending nicely throughout at full draw and go shoot it!