Author Topic: Advice needed on starting a naturally highly reflexed VM stave. (W/pics.)  (Read 5425 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline ricktrojanowski

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,064
  • Worlds Greatest Deer Repellent
I roughed this one out a while ago but didn't know how to start the tillering process due to its high natural reflex.  It is a Vine Maple stave with lots of character.  It has about 6" of natural reflex.  Way more than I'm used to.  Should I try to heat some of it out on my caul?  Or should I just start working it as any other stave with a more moderate amout of reflex?  Any advice is greatly appreciated.

[attachment deleted by admin]
Traverse City, MI

Offline zenmonkeyman

  • Member
  • Posts: 482
One of the bibles argued that any more than about 3" (if memory serves) would be a bad idea.  Not sure which bible, except that I don't have #4 yet, so it isn't that one.
If the ppl ever allow private banks to control their currency, 1st by inflation, then by deflation, the banks & corporations that will grow up around (these banks) will deprive the ppl of all property until their children wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. Thomas Jefferson

Offline mullet

  • Global Moderator
  • Member
  • Posts: 22,911
  • Eddie Parker
 Rick, I'd thin it some on the belly side and heat some of it out. At least even it up
Lakeland, Florida
 If you have to pull the trigger, is it really archery?

Offline Aries

  • Member
  • Posts: 493
maybe throwing some deflex, into the handle would serve to lower early string weight and would make things go smoother while still taking advantage of your natural reflex. if i remember rightly VM is some pretty tough stuff, it might be able to handle the punishment of that design.... like mullet said though try to even up your reflex a little, it will make your tillering life about a 1000x easier :P
"If the only tool you have is a hammer,
                   you tend to see every problem as a nail."
                               ~Abraham Maslow

Offline bambule

  • Member
  • Posts: 213
Interesting thread - I have a piece of BL which looks like yours but with 10" on both sides...
I would try to heat the reflex out a little and give it a deflex in the handle area.

Greetz
Cord
Niedersachsen, Germany

Offline El Destructo

  • Member
  • Posts: 8,078
  • Longhaired Crippled Hippie Biker And Proud Of It!!
    • Desert Sportz Primitive Archery
Rick....I too would thin down the Limbs....heat it up....and pull that right Limb....about a foot out from the Tiller Stick down to match the Left....and go for it...that Vine Maple is some  resilient Stuff...if you have never worked it before...I love it....light as a Feather...and stores energy like an old Leaf Spring does.thats one nice Snakey Character Stave...I want to see this one finished!!
As a species we're fundamentally insane. Put more than two of us in a room, we pick sides and start dreaming up ways to kill one another.Why do you think we invented politics and religion.
Think HEALTHCARE Is Expensive Now,Wait Till It's FREE
Do Or Do Not,There Is No TRY
2024...We Will Overcome

Offline ricktrojanowski

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,064
  • Worlds Greatest Deer Repellent
Thanks for the advice.
El D- I hear you on the VM.  This is my second VM bow.  The first one was a much easier piece, but I always like a challenge.   The first one I did is my "go to" bow, like you said light as a feather and can really sling an arrow.
Traverse City, MI

Offline Pappy

  • Global Moderator
  • Member
  • Posts: 32,198
  • if you have to ask you wouldn't understand ,Tenn.
I would do like others has said,thin a little and take some out and even it up,be careful not to thin to much,high reflex will trick you very easy into thinking it is to heavy when you first brace it.Easy
to come in under weight. Nice challenging stave.Can't wait to see what you come up with.  :)
   Pappy
Clarksville,Tennessee
TwinOaks Bowhunters
Life is Good

Offline Keenan

  • Member
  • Posts: 4,824
Rick that is a dandy. Do just like others have said, just even up a little and start working her in. I have one that is even more then that that I'm about to start in on. ;D ::)

Offline Gordon

  • Member
  • Posts: 3,299
That's a pretty typical amount of starting reflex for vine maple. Vine Maple exists under highly tensioned conditions and "curls up" after you cut and split it. Most of that will come out but it makes for some interesting tillering in the beginning. Don't try to heat it out, that won't work with this wood.
Gordon

Offline Ryano

  • Member
  • Posts: 3,578
  • Ryan O'Sullivan, North Western Pennsylvania
Re: Advice needed on starting a naturally highly reflexed VM stave. (W/pics.)
« Reply #10 on: January 22, 2010, 12:46:51 pm »
I'd put it on a caul and even out the limbs, maybe deflex the handle area a little bit.  Be careful, I had one just like that riddled with knots on the back let loose on me at full draw. It sounded like a 12 guage shot gun when she blew.
Its November, I'm gone hunt'in.......
Osage is still better.....

Offline Gordon

  • Member
  • Posts: 3,299
Re: Advice needed on starting a naturally highly reflexed VM stave. (W/pics.)
« Reply #11 on: January 22, 2010, 05:36:30 pm »
Ryan, I've worked a lot with vine maple and can tell you that it's a waste of time to try to heat correct such a stave until the tension has been worked out - it will just return to it's original shape. Vine maple often grows under severe tension, so much so that NW loggers treat this stuff with respect when clearing an area as it can rear back and injure you when that tension is suddently released. When you harvest such wood all that stress is relieved and it begins to curl up. This effect becomes more pronounced as the stave dries. My theory is that the tension wood contracts when stress is relieved and the wood dries. What I have found is that you need to work this tension out of the wood by essentially stretching it during the tillering process. Some here are going to say that in doing so you are inducing set into the wood. I don't believe that to be the case here as this has nothing to do with the compression wood. Either way, it's simply not feasbile to tiller a stave that maintains 6+ inches of reflex, and my experience is that you cannot heat it out.

 BTW, I have never experienced this effect with any wood other than vine maple - it trully seems to be unique in this regard.
Gordon

Offline NTProf

  • Member
  • Posts: 250
Re: Advice needed on starting a naturally highly reflexed VM stave. (W/pics.)
« Reply #12 on: January 22, 2010, 09:12:51 pm »
Gordon is the guru of vine maple!

Offline ricktrojanowski

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,064
  • Worlds Greatest Deer Repellent
Re: Advice needed on starting a naturally highly reflexed VM stave. (W/pics.)
« Reply #13 on: January 22, 2010, 10:48:08 pm »
I'd put it on a caul and even out the limbs, maybe deflex the handle area a little bit.  Be careful, I had one just like that riddled with knots on the back let loose on me at full draw. It sounded like a 12 gauge shot gun when she blew.
Man, that is not what I needed to hear after the ERC explosion  ;D
Thanks all for the advice, I started thinning it down tonight and got one of the limbs bending a bit. 

Gordon- To "work out the tension"  Should I proceed with the usual floor tillering process as I would with a less reflexed stave.  Or is there another method that you prefer?  Thanks for any advice.
Traverse City, MI

Offline Blacktail

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,432
Re: Advice needed on starting a naturally highly reflexed VM stave. (W/pics.)
« Reply #14 on: January 22, 2010, 11:58:01 pm »
just get going on it Ryan...that is going to be a wonderful bow...know you see why some people love the vine maple...it all ways has character...lets get you #2 vine maple bow done...i don't why but i love this wood...its Gordon fault..john