the mass principle in one sentence

[Gordon]

You can think of it as scraping out a certain amount of wood and replacing it with the same mass of OTHER MATERIAL, say bamboo, horn or even fiberglass. For the belly, that other material better be something that has more resistance to compression.

I agree with that characterization. I just don't understand what sort of changes to the wood cells are causing this to happen.

[Marc St Louis]

I answered that, You make an adjustment for that the same way you make adjustments for many other factors. Thats where experience come in. If you are too lazy t read a chapter I don't really want to deal with you anymore, it is getting rediculous here. Steve

Honestly Steve I don't know why you engaged with this guy for this long in the first place.  He is just looking for someone to argue with but has little to no base of information or experience to argue with

[PatM]

Gotta love a lawyer. Try to make right things wrong and wrong things right.
 It should be pretty clear that even with heat treating you're just turning wood into slightly better wood. Better wood needs less mass to reach a goal.
 You could just rename your heat treated wood.
 I would think you would find that heat treated HHB equals Osage  and Elm equals yew in regards to mass requirement.
 No need to dance around and try to get a guilty verdict as you appear to be doing here.

[Badger]

   I was trying to wear him out, LOL, he won! Going to start a new thread just more on a personnal note about the mass theory. Try to explain what was behind it, the motivation etc,

[mullet]

 Pat, I forgot he was a lawyer, I was wondering why this was getting monotonous, and we had to read through so much organic matter.

[scp]

It should be pretty clear that even with heat treating you're just turning wood into slightly better wood. Better wood needs less mass to reach a goal.

Badger said NO to the first sentence. See, above.

As for the second sentence, Badger said, the mass principle assumes for bow making purposes all wood is equal.

[mullet]

 Yea, you win, NEXT CASE, YOUR HONOR.

[scp]

I guess Badger has his work cut out to teach the mass principle here. Good luck.

[Badger]

   Badger also said we assume it is all equal even though we know it is not. This is your first indication allowances will be used by the bowyer. Quit playing lawyer! steve

[scp]

  Badger also said we assume it is all equal even though we know it is not. This is your first indication allowances will be used by the bowyer.

Of course we all know it's not the case, but let's just pretend that we all already know what the mass principle is, shall we?

[Gordon]

scp, the base assumption of Steve's theory is that all wood is equal. However, Steve acknowledges that heat treating changes that calculation and that an allowance has to be made. No model can perfectly predict an outcome for something that has as many variables as constructing a bow made of all natural materials. But is seems to be a pretty good approximation and a useful tool for any bowyer who is serious about the performance of their bows.

[George Tsoukalas]

scp, you've got several world class bowyers on this site. You've got members who have authored articles for archery publications. You've got a couple of world class flight shooters. I wish I had this site when I started breakin' and makin' 20 years ago. I humbly suggest you spend more time picking brains rather than nitpicking. Jawge

[scp]

scp, the base assumption of Steve's theory is that all wood is equal. However, Steve acknowledges that heat treating changes that calculation and that an allowance has to be made. No model can perfectly predict an outcome for something that has as many variables as constructing a bow made of all natural materials. But is seems to be a pretty good approximation and a useful tool for any bowyer who is serious about the performance of their bows.

I believe it works. If not, we can always make it work! But we can't do that if we are not willing to think, ask questions, experiment, and communicate. I mostly ask questions.

[scp]

Jawge, what makes you think I am not doing exactly what you want me to do? Knowledge mining is never easy and often extremely irritating.

[El Destructo]

                                                                    ........WHOLLY-WHAH............


    Man............I can't beleive that this went on this Long..........and that I stayed out of it too......... ....I am impressed..........