Author Topic: chokecherry and sinew Blackfoot buffalo bow.  (Read 20077 times)

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Offline Pappy

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Re: chokecherry and sinew Blackfoot buffalo bow.
« Reply #15 on: January 13, 2010, 06:41:28 am »
Nice bow,man what a bend,cool. :)
   Pappy
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Offline Jude

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Re: chokecherry and sinew Blackfoot buffalo bow.
« Reply #16 on: January 13, 2010, 02:00:40 pm »
Just out of curiosity, how much does sinew outperform rawhide as a backing?  For example, there is a standard rule for determining bow length based on draw length; how is that rule modified by rawhide, and how much by sinew?

The way I understand it is that rawhide, as a backing, is little different from cloth backings, like linen, silk or denim.  They help to hold the back together, but do nothing to alter the performance characteristics of the bow.  Sinew is in a completely different catagory; it pulls the bow into reflex as it dries, adds draw weight, and increases the amount of bend possible for a given length bow.  For a given draw weight, some of the limb thickness that had been wood, is replaced by sinew, which stretches further than any wood is capable of.  The wood portion is actually thinner than it would have been in an all wood bow of the same weight, so it can bend more, without putting the belly under any more stress.  In the end, you can have a very short bow, with lots of reflex, and still be able to take it to full draw without overstraining.  I think your main limiting factor ends up being stacking, which can be remedied by flipping the tips.  When you go as far as replacing the belly with horn, you end up with the Mongol/Turkish styles, which were often reflexed to about opposite of their full draw profiles.  I seem to see quite a few sinew bows that are only about 2/3 the length that an all wood bow would need to be for a given draw length.  Hope this helps, and sorry if it was long winded.  Sometimes I get away from myself ;)
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Offline OldBow

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Re: chokecherry and sinew Blackfoot buffalo bow.
« Reply #17 on: January 13, 2010, 02:00:57 pm »
Got your very authentic Primitive Bow bookmarked under January BOM. Nice to see a serious primitive bow now and then. No super glue, either.
When you're retired, every day is Saturday

Offline OldBow

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Re: chokecherry and sinew Blackfoot buffalo bow.
« Reply #18 on: January 13, 2010, 02:02:33 pm »
i would love a stave of choke cherry ;)
We have millions of chokecherry here in Western Montana and in fact in my back yard. Typically poles. Want me to send you one? It would be green and heavy.
When you're retired, every day is Saturday

Offline zenmonkeyman

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Re: chokecherry and sinew Blackfoot buffalo bow.
« Reply #19 on: January 13, 2010, 03:03:45 pm »
Thanks Jude, it makes sense to me now.  I couldn't figure out why the belly wouldn't crysal!
If the ppl ever allow private banks to control their currency, 1st by inflation, then by deflation, the banks & corporations that will grow up around (these banks) will deprive the ppl of all property until their children wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. Thomas Jefferson

Offline Barrage

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Re: chokecherry and sinew Blackfoot buffalo bow.
« Reply #20 on: January 13, 2010, 03:56:56 pm »
That is a very nice bow... 8)
Travis

Offline sailordad

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Re: chokecherry and sinew Blackfoot buffalo bow.
« Reply #21 on: January 13, 2010, 07:06:59 pm »
oldbow i would appreciate that
i always wanted a harley,untill it became the "thing to ride"
i ride because i love to,not to be part of the crowd

Offline DanaM

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Re: chokecherry and sinew Blackfoot buffalo bow.
« Reply #22 on: January 13, 2010, 07:27:31 pm »
oldbow i would appreciate that

Tim that means ya have to quit playin with rocks :o
"Prosperity is a way of living and thinking, and not just money or things. Poverty is a way of living and thinking, and not just a lack of money or things."

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Offline sailordad

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Re: chokecherry and sinew Blackfoot buffalo bow.
« Reply #23 on: January 13, 2010, 07:51:07 pm »
oldbow i would appreciate that

Tim that means ya have to quit playin with rocks :o

well maybe after it dries out and cures for awhile. i do work on wood occasionally yet.just not like i used too.
i am a much better knapper than bowyer.
i always wanted a harley,untill it became the "thing to ride"
i ride because i love to,not to be part of the crowd

Offline cracker

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Re: chokecherry and sinew Blackfoot buffalo bow.
« Reply #24 on: January 13, 2010, 08:20:26 pm »
I'll vouch for Sailordad on that I got some of his points on a trade and traded one to a friend of mine who had it made into a necklace for his wife and got some serious brownie points for it. It occours to me that someone that talented could make a bow no problem.Ron
If we can't help each other what is the point of being here?

Offline loefflerchuck

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Re: chokecherry and sinew Blackfoot buffalo bow.
« Reply #25 on: January 13, 2010, 08:54:23 pm »
Thanks Jude. That is an excellent explanation. I've been experimenting with incense cedar and lots of sinew 5 and 6 layers in short bows, and my reflexed/recurved 38" bow is still drawing 25" with no signs of problems after 6 months. But 2 others with similar draws started showing signs of cryssaling. 1 I caught in time. Re tillered the bend away from it and it is fine. The other I didn't catch in time and it's retired :'(. I think with that much of an overdraw, getting a perfect tiller is just luck, but if you keep a close eye on the wood for the first sign of chryssaling, eventually you will have a long lasting bow.

Offline ricktrojanowski

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Re: chokecherry and sinew Blackfoot buffalo bow.
« Reply #26 on: January 14, 2010, 09:54:06 pm »
NICE ;D  I love that bow.  That is a real primitive beauty.  Job well done.
Traverse City, MI

Offline OldBow

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Re: chokecherry and sinew Blackfoot buffalo bow.
« Reply #27 on: January 15, 2010, 12:08:39 am »
oldbow i would appreciate that
Tomorrow, I'll take a picture of one in my backyard and post it for you  It'll probably weigh abouit 20-25 lbs. I think its about 2.5 inches in diameter and I'll plan to cut a 72" section out of it. Then, from the picture, I'll find out how much it would cost to ship it. Then you can let me know ...I accept PayPal.
Here are pictures the satin grain of chokecherry and finished bow from my area:

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When you're retired, every day is Saturday

Offline hedgeapple

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Re: chokecherry and sinew Blackfoot buffalo bow.
« Reply #28 on: January 15, 2010, 01:47:40 am »
I had seen some other chokecherry bows posted and like them.  I knew I had some type of wild cherry trees growing on my farm but wasn't sure of what species they were.  I had looked in the Audubon book, but nothing really looked right.  And, under the section "cherry" it didn't list chokecherry.  It wasn't until I saw this post that my little mind decided to look up "chokecherry" in the Audubon book.  And wahlah, I have chokecherries everywhere.  Where's my saw?  :)
Dave   Richmond, KY
26" draw

Offline Jude

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Re: chokecherry and sinew Blackfoot buffalo bow.
« Reply #29 on: January 15, 2010, 05:30:06 am »
Chokecherry and black cherry are close cousins, though wildly different in growth habits.  I was snooping around for info on each, and decided to look up pin cherry (fire cherry) as well, thinking that it would look really nice with the bark left on, looks like a bright red birch.  The info online said the wood was weak, and of no economic value, unfortunately.  Anybody have any experience using it?
"Not all those that wander are lost."--Tolkien
"If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer."--Benoit