Author Topic: How well do you apply a finish?  (Read 9914 times)

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Offline kiltedcelt

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How well do you apply a finish?
« on: January 10, 2010, 02:55:41 am »
I have a couple bows I'm finishing up. So far I've had a problem with spar urethane that wouldn't dry on Ipe (wasn't degreased and sealed beforehand), and now I'm struggling to finish up a lacquer finish. Unfortunately, I'm a perfectionist at heart and so I find myself after every coat, not completely satisfied with one (or more) areas. So, I touch up with some sandpaper and steel wool, spray again, and you know - rinse and repeat... I'm at a point now where this is the last coat (so far I think 5 coats - two brush-on and three sprayed on). For starters, I'll NEVER apply a lacquer finish ever again. Secondly, after this last coat is dried I'm simply going to buff out with 0000 steel wool and leave it at that. If there is something that looks a little off I'm just going to leave it. I struggle between wanting a flawless finish and then telling myself that this is a functional piece and doesn't need to have a completely flawless finish. In fact a few flaw might give it character (yeah - I kid myself). Anyway, I'm just wondering how all of you guys do with your finishes. Do you try to get it totally perfect or go for the "Looks good at arm's length" school of thought?

Offline Jude

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Re: How well do you apply a finish?
« Reply #1 on: January 10, 2010, 03:41:43 am »
I'm kind of like you, in that I try to get it perfect, but eventually, I'll let it go with some minor imperfections that no one but myself seems to notice.  I learned from one of my employers, who did a lot of built in furniture pieces in his renovation projects, about finish sanding with oil.  After spraying on the final coat of polyurethane, dry sanding between coats, we would wet sand with mineral oil, up to 400 grit.  I adapted the method, but use boiled linseed oil as the lubricant, because it acts as a finish in its own right, and i will progress all the way to 800 grit.  I learned of a trick for open grained wood, from a gunsmith friend who's specialty was high end gunstocks, but have never tried it myself.  After final sanding and staining, if applicable, he would fill the grain with epoxy.  I'm not certain if he thinned it, or just went with straight smooth on.  Wiping off all the excess before it cured, he would allow it to set, and finish sand up to 800 grit.  Then he would follow with several coats of hand-rubbed oil finish.  Furniture wax is another option to gloss over any slight imperfections, plus it adds another layer of protection from the elements.  Currently, I'm experimenting with boiled soybean oil, because it has similar polymerization properties to linseed oil, but it doesn't stink, and is completely non-toxic.  I use a paste mixture of 4 parts boiled soybean oil to one part beeswax, (with a half part bacon grease just cause I had it kicking around, so I threw it in the pot) to waterproof my bows, and my sinew strings, as well as any leather I have around, my knife blades, etc. etc.  As you might guess, I'm a little obsessed with finishes.  Next project will be an old-school tree resin and turpentine varnish.
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Offline Del the cat

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Re: How well do you apply a finish?
« Reply #2 on: January 10, 2010, 06:55:40 am »
It's a good question.
It's easy to get hooked into the deep shine high gloss look., which is fine in int's place.
i personally prefer the low gloss, low effort, low maintenance finishes, good old beeswax and turps wiped on with a rag.
If I use varnish type finishes I thend to thin them, wipe on sand down, wipe on sand down, repat until stisfied/bored/run out of varnish.
I still aim for the low gloss, low depth of finish effect and often still wipe over with beeswax/torps type finish.
I rarely use a brush and I hate sprats as they are so expensive, wasteful and don't actually give any better results for the finisghes I want.
Del
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Offline George Tsoukalas

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Re: How well do you apply a finish?
« Reply #3 on: January 10, 2010, 10:32:05 am »
kilted, what happens that makes you unsatisfied? Jawge
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Offline El Destructo

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Re: How well do you apply a finish?
« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2010, 11:02:10 am »
I use either Beeswax/Tallow mixtures ....or rub in Linseed Oil's....I don't believe in them wet looking Finishes on a Bow...they may look good on a Coffee Table....Dresser ....Armoire...or Gun Cabinet...but not My Bows.....JMO
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Offline Del the cat

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Re: How well do you apply a finish?
« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2010, 11:25:46 am »
I use either Beeswax/Tallow mixtures ....or rub in Linseed Oil's....I don't believe in them wet looking Finishes on a Bow...they may look good on a Coffee Table....Dresser ....Armoire...or Gun Cabinet...but not My Bows.....JMO
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Del
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Offline sailordad

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Re: How well do you apply a finish?
« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2010, 11:48:39 am »
when it comes to the finish,i usually spend a lot of time (anal perfectionist)
some bows are easier than others to get the desired finish for me though
if i am trying to go all primitive,thats the easy one.i rub in beeswax,about 8-10 coats.the first 2-3 the wax is rubbed on a warm,heated bow.
the other coats are just hand buffed/rubed in cold.
if i am going fancy modern,i use tongue oil.either the high gloss or low gloss.
then the wood type helps decide how i proceed.
stuff like ipe gets degreased first,then about 15 coats usually.the first 5 are real light coats but get vigourusly hand rubbed in.
the rest of the coats are real light wipe on coats.then if i want to to the shine down i use xxxx steel wool rial light on it.
 could take hours off each bow if i eliminated my finih process
« Last Edit: January 10, 2010, 12:00:19 pm by sailordad »
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Offline Little John

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Re: How well do you apply a finish?
« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2010, 11:52:30 am »
I am with DEL and EL. Most of my bows earn beauty mark in the field any way.   Kenneth
May all of your moments afield with bow in hand please and satisfy you.            G. Fred Asbell

Offline Pat B

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Re: How well do you apply a finish?
« Reply #8 on: January 10, 2010, 12:00:34 pm »
I put a finish on my bows to slow the hygroscopic rate(moisture exchange from atmosphere to wood and back) . All of my bows are built to hunt with so I don't want a deep shine or "perfect" finish look. I put down 4-6 coats of Tru-Oil with a rubdown with 0000steel wool between coats and when the last coat is applied and dried I add a quick spray of satin poly to cut the shine. The remaining tool marks are part of my signature. 
Make the most of all that comes and the least of all that goes!    Pat Brennan  Brevard, NC

Offline Dano

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Re: How well do you apply a finish?
« Reply #9 on: January 10, 2010, 12:04:52 pm »
I do just like Pat, the finish on a selfbow is not just for looks, JMO. ;)
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Offline dragonman

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Re: How well do you apply a finish?
« Reply #10 on: January 10, 2010, 04:56:30 pm »
Hi Kiltedcelt,( are you a Scotsman?)  these words on finnishing sound like I wrote them myself, I've got so frustated with finnishing, especially ipe, If you seriously degrease ipe with acetone then apply Danish Oil , 5 or 6 coats this seems to work reasonably well. I dont know if danish oil is around in the states?, but its a mixture of oils mostly linseed, with some varnish like resins added and a solvent( I think)
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Offline Justin Snyder

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Re: How well do you apply a finish?
« Reply #11 on: January 10, 2010, 05:08:20 pm »
Nothing wrong with a pretty finish on a bow. If it is a target bow I often use gloss, if it is a hunting bow I use satin. Like Pat, I believe the finish is fairly important to protect the bow. I use Minwax quick dry spray Poly Urethane or Spar Urethane. I have used Poly and Spar on Ipe and never had a problem yet. You could be applying it too thick or in too cold of temps.

dragonman, danish is fairly easy to find in the US.
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Offline dragonman

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Re: How well do you apply a finish?
« Reply #12 on: January 10, 2010, 06:09:18 pm »
Justin, your ipe or your urethane  varnish must be very different from mine, because I have tried everything and without extreme degreasing it justn't dry, not even after 4 or 5 days.  What do you think of the danish oil, would you reccomend it???
'expansion and compression'.. the secret of life is to balance these two opposing forces.......

Offline Justin Snyder

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Re: How well do you apply a finish?
« Reply #13 on: January 10, 2010, 06:23:31 pm »
I don't use it.  ;D Nothing against it, I just like the Minwax so I don't change.
Everything happens for a reason, sometimes the reason is you made a bad decision.


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Offline kiltedcelt

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Re: How well do you apply a finish?
« Reply #14 on: January 10, 2010, 10:16:15 pm »
Hi Kiltedcelt,( are you a Scotsman?)  these words on finnishing sound like I wrote them myself, I've got so frustated with finnishing, especially ipe, If you seriously degrease ipe with acetone then apply Danish Oil , 5 or 6 coats this seems to work reasonably well. I dont know if danish oil is around in the states?, but its a mixture of oils mostly linseed, with some varnish like resins added and a solvent( I think)

I'm not right-off-the-boat Scotsman, but the bulk of my ethic make up is Scots/Irish, and I frequently wear a kilt. As for Danish Oil, there is brand here (in the states) called Watco - they make a good Danish Oil that can be bought in clear (natural) or a variety of stains from Walnut to Mahogany. My next finish it likely going to be some sort of wipe-on oil finish like Watco. They're just so much easier than any kind of brush-on or spray-on finish.