overstreet guide

[sailordad]

well i went down and bought myself a copy of the "OVERSTREET IDENTIFICTION AND PRICE GUIDE TO INDIAN ARROWHEADS" 11th edition

this book is filled with lots of awesome full size pics,mostly black and white.but also alot of color pics too.
now i have been reading alot on points in my region,northern central.
now i do have some questions for all of you that know more than me about this stuff,which for the most part is all of you .

in the descriptions of points they use terms such as "horizontal transverse flaking","collateral flaking", etc
i understand what "parallel oblique flaking", and "random flaking" mean.but unsure as to these other styles of flaking mean.

also i was looking for types that would be from minnesota,as this is where i am from.
but in the whole NC section,they only showed three that stated they were from mn.
am i to assume that all the types in the NC section may be found in mn,or is my state just artifact poor?
if the state is artifact poor,would this mean that those that are found would be worth a buck or three?
i know a couple of people that have found points in differant parts of central minnesota.they would be estatic if they were worth something.
thanks for any help you can give

                                                                        peace,
                                                                             tim

[bryan irwin]

i wounld not say that it's artifac poor maby people up there that have collections need to send pic's of them to overstreet and they will put them in there next edition.

[FlintWalker]

The 11th Edition!!!  Man, I need to update! Mine is the 6th
 Just because there were only three points listed as being from Mn, doesn't mean that any of the points in the NC region couldn't be in Mn. Because ther was only three, I would assume that lithics in general would be a little more scarce in Mn than in surrounding states. maybe because of a lack of knappable stone???
 I would also assume that any point from there would be no more valuable than a comparable point from any other state. With the exception of maybe a collector who was interested in mainly artifacts from Mn.
 
 Also. the prices they list for the artifacts are a little decieving.  The first price would be considered wholesale...the second price represents retail.  It's sometimes hard to get the second price.
  I think hor. transverse flaking is where the flakes run all the way from edge to edge and collateral flaking is when they form a ridge in the center.
  What'd that book set ya back?

[sailordad]

Shannon is cost 31.99 plus tax at Barnes and Noble.

[mullet]

 Overstreets book is a nice guide but the prices he list you need to take as a Very marginal estimate. Some of the points he has listed with the prices from Florida, I'd have to tell him good luck, getting it. A lot of points from areas of the mid west and the NC regions are not sought after by collectors because the ascetics of the point is just not desirable, mostly because of the material of the rock. Another reason is the Agriculture practices in those areas has destroyed a lot of the collectable value of a point.
  If you find a Newnan or Hillsborough, coral point down here 5 to 6" long, with no chips, or nicks, you are looking at the $3,000 to 6,000 range, if you know the right collector. If it has a broken base or chip, or nick, It is worth in the 100's of dollars range if somebody wants it bad. I don't even put a point in a case if it is broke, unless it is rare, like a broke Suwanee, or Clovis or exceptional Coral Hillsborough with a snapped base.

[FlintWalker]

Eddie, argicultural practices haven't destroyed the collectable value of the points. It has destroyed the value of a lot of collectable  points.
 When it comes to money...perfection is king. I don't know how many people have wanted me to look at their collections thinking they were sitting on a gold mine...only to find that out of a few hundred pieces, they have a few $10 points.
 One tiny tip ding can turn a $500 point into a $50 piece.  Not only that, it has to be good material and good workmanship, with size to boot.
 I'm like you Eddie. It don't go in my case unless it's near perfect.  I've found over 2,000 pieces, but my case only has about 60 good pieces.

[mullet]

 Shannon, yea, that's what I meant. When you get back down, I'll get Rick to show you his cases of points. Some of his cases are in the $40,000 range or more. Unfortunatley I don't hav ethe pretty ones anymore, they are in somebody else's cases now. They paid for some guns, bows and hunting trips.

[sailordad]

i thought the prices were way out of control
i noticed to that they dont tell ya what material most of them were made from either.
that i found a little disapointing,but atleast its good for size referance and design.
i also find alot of the black/white pics to be poor enough that you cant see the flake pattern.
if i could then i would be able to see what they mean by the differant flake styles.

i know minnesota has very little to no good lithic material
i was told one time that most of the ancients here traded for there material,unless they were just making a quick crude tool
then they would just leave them laying after they were done with the task at hand.because the material is so poor.

i have an uncle who walks fields every spring looking for agates,hes been doing this for a very long time now.
in all those years he has only found 3 points,one is busted,one is very crude,the other(the best of the three) is less than a half inch long
and is made from red agate.which we do have a lot of here.another guy i know has found three or four on the same beach over a period of years.

[mullet]

 I have gotten some lithics from your area and across the border. Everything that has been gifted to me has been axes and celts with farm disc scars across them and have been made by peck and grind, mostly granite and some similar, green grainy rock

[sailordad]

Eddie, that sounds like the stuff weve got here.
grainy granite type material.pretty much useless for everything except driveway filler 
i think thats why they left alot of tools lay after they were done with the project at hand.
wasnt worth luggin the extra weight back to the village/camp sites.
easier to just discard and make new ones as needed.

i need to take a pic,i think i may have found my very first artifact this past summer.
i'll do that tommor and ya'll can tell me if it is or not.

[jcinpc]

man I have been digging  for over 25 years and we pretty much look at Overstreet as garbage, it might be good as a ID book but thats about it. Too many people get caught up with prices, thats what has killed our hobby.  Heres a few pics of some of my stuff

[sailordad]

ya, i only bought it as a referance,that way i would know what what looks like and such

dont take this the wrong way please
but that makes me sick lol
man i wish i could find just one artifact point.
ever since i was kid walking the fileds on relatives farms picking rocks,i always looked for points
never found a one,but like i said.i may have found  my first artifact
pic will be up tomorrow

you are a very lucky guy to find so many,and they are nice uns too

[jcinpc]

I too walked the fields when I was a kid here in central Fl. I got tired of finding awesome but broken poiints. So I started digging when I got out of high school. I walk the shel mounds sites, I walk construction sites I dive the river ( for fossils)  I have bone, stone, shell and pottery . I have some pics of some of Ricks points but they are buried somewhere on photo bucket, too long to dig through. I have a few Hillsborough sites right near my house.

[mullet]

 Well, Jeff, lets go dig some Hillsborough sites I wasn't trying to hit on the prices as much as I'm like you, Overstreet is a joke. What I was getting at is you , Rick and others have better JUNK than what is in his book, compared to his price quotes.  And my pictures of Ricks stuff iss buried too.

[FlintWalker]

I guess from a artifact hunters standpoint, I live in a pretty rich area.  I've picked them up all my life.  From plowed fields to ditches, to yards, driveways, and in the woods. You name it and I've probably found some kind of point there.
 The craziest place I ever found one was on top of a fallen log in the woods.  A big red oak had blown over and another one fell right beside it.  Laying on top of one of them was a woodland type point that had washed out of the root wad of the other one.
 Digging is pretty much not an option around here. The ground is about as hard as concrete. You'd dig till you passed out and probably not find a flake.
 With permission, you can dig overhangs and caves and still find some pretty nice stuff as long as you don't find any burials...that's a big no no.  I've picked a few up right on top of the dirt in a cave or two around here.