Manitoba Chokecherry Sapling Stave

[zenmonkeyman]

Having monkeyed some with an oak plank, I couldn't wait to try a selfbow.  I knew there were some nice chokecherries competing with mature poplars behind my parents' house, so on my last visit I harvested one.  It was about 3" across, with some knots but not too many.  I left it a whole 3 days before I had to start.  I quickly peeled it and macheted it into a large mess and a very rough stick.  Sealed the ends and back with shellac and brought it in the house.  Laid it out and started with my "drawknife" (also my machete).  I decided on a 4inch handle offset an inch from center, 61" tip to tip, 1 1/2" at the fades tapering evenly to 1/2" at the tips.  I want to hunt deer but I'm pretty scrawny so I'm looking at no more than 50#.  I just skimmed through Gordon's hazelnut buildalong though (for about the 5th time!) and I'm worried I haven't left enough wood.  I guess I'll find out.



This is the only knot penetrating the back.  There are a few violating the belly to mostly minor degrees.


Bit of a kink on the upper limb as well.  Otherwise she's pretty straight!


I put the handle in the center of the natural reflex.  Had enough length to play with. (I hope!)


Clamped the crooked limb and went away for Chistmas.


Yesterday I worked it down a bit more, got it *mostly* floor tillered, and clamped it up.  The upper limb turned out dead straight after 4 days on the rack, but still has some twist.  I have it clamped with a hatchet holding it over. 


The other end which was straight before went a bit wild over the last week, so I have the tip clamped over and down for the twist, and squeezed to the side with another bar clamp for the bend.  Also in this shot are my twisted tamarack limb billets.  I'll be looking for help with them for my next project!   


So once again I prevail on all of you to register your opinions on where I'm going wrong.  Save me from myself!  Will I get 45-50#s out of this?  Somebody on an old thread said he'd found chokecherry to be nearly "indestructable" so I'm hoping he's right.  Thanks for helping!

[youngbowyer33]

looks great to me

[half eye]

Zen---
      You know I have not made a bow the way you do....but it looks to my eye that you have plenty of wood (limb thickness back to belly) to get way more than 50#. One other....Most all the deer I've shot with my 45 to 50 pound bows were through and through so my phylosophy is good weight arrows, from a bow you shoot well and hit where you're looking is way more important than a 70-75# you miss with.
     Just one old mans opinion
half eye

[sailordad]

i'm with half eye on this
looks like ya got plenty for  hefty bow,but theres more to a good kill than a heavy weight bow


p.s. i'm al for a messy work area,but looks like ya need to do a litle house cleaning  ;Dlol

[Dauntless]

Chokecherry has been very, very kind to me before I read the Traditional Bowyer's Bibles.  Worked removed from the back and the belly + horrendous tiller = sweet 40# bow.  This was from a severely twisted tree too.   

You have a fantastic stave there, as long as you avoid everything I did you should get a great bow.  It looks fantastic already.

PS. I weigh a clean 130# (read extra scrawny) and draw 70# without too much trouble.  When I draw 50# I can hit things sometimes.  You'll get used to 50-60# pretty quickly.

[rileyconcrete]

Looks good Zen.  I would think you will have plenty of wood to tiller to 50#.  I am gonna keep a close eye on this thread for I have a chokecherry stave drying in the rafters of the shop.  I cut it mid september on an elk hunt, sealed the ends, and split it about a week ago.  I left the bark on, and will soon peel and shelac as you did.  I was thinking of the same style of bow, so I will see how yours comes out and may try it.  Good luck with the rest of your project.

Tell

[Canoe]

Howdy Zen and Group,

So, am I missing something here?  Before beginning work on this stave you left it for, "a whole 3 days"?  Does chokecherry not need any drying time?  I don't recall hearing of any wood that doesn't have to be sealed and left to dry for at least a few months. 

I'm concerned that once you begin to tiller that terrific stave you'll get some terrible set due to its moisture content.  So, please correct or inform me on this critical drying process.

I sure hope this works for you. 

BTW, I'm guilty of passing on cutting down some chokecherry because I wasn't sure it would make a decent bow.  So, thanks for sharing.

All the Best,
Canoe

[zenmonkeyman]

Wow thanks for all the comments and encouragement!

Half eye & Sailordad:  With the weight, what I'm concerned with is whether chokecherry as a wood can withstand being bent at my hoped-for draw weight without failing.  I want a shortish bow, and not having any information on what chokecherry "likes", I just thought I'd go for it and hope for the best.  I also agree that 40-50# is lots for deer with proper tuning and arrow choice.  If I got 50# and I like how the bow shoots, I might even be tempted to look for an elk... (And hope I found a little one!)

Dauntless:  Hey, maybe it was your replies to somebody else's posts that encouraged me to try this, what you say seems familiar.  I picked up a PSE bow with training wheels at Canadian Tire the other day, 70#...  Couldn't budge it.  I guess it's different with trad & primitive bows, though...  Maybe I can do 70# at the end of my draw where I've got better leverage.  Never thought about it before.  Maybe the next bow I'll try for some outrageous weight.  I'll have to get a block & tackle for tillering, though, both for my back and my meat scale which bottoms at 50#. 

rileyconcrete:  Glad to have you along!  You've been thinking this over for a while, obviously.  What were your plans for how to proceed with yours, and why?  You've probably thought of some things that I haven't.  Let's compare notes!

Canoe:  If you do a search here for green staves, you'll find a lot of people assuring us that it's perfectly ok to rough out a bow when it's green, and it will cure much much faster than leaving a tree with the bark on.  I'm probably rushing things a bit, but I can't leave it alone!  It seems like it's very close to dry though, I can't believe how light my stick feels in my hand.  I'll be proceeding slowly and watching for set, but I have a lot of natural reflex at the handle that (in my mind) gives me some leeway.  I cut it on the 18th or 19th.  Don't pass on these trees, I've read a few times in my searches that these are sweet-shooting bows.

[Stoker]

Hi Zen. Let that chokecherry dry Clamp it on a form. She'll twist on you bad.. I let my staves dry for at least a year.
you'll get a easy 50 out of that.What area of the keystone province are you from? Check out my lastest chokecherry..
It's a work in progress project
Thanks Leroy

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[zenmonkeyman]

Stoker, that is one wonky stick!!

I dunno, mine is already very close to dry, maybe peeling it green and reducing it quickly saved me.  Like maybe the wood out on the edges decided to shrink at varying rates on you, whereas I removed it and it couldn't exert any influence on my stick.  I got a little bit of twist and bend, but very easily manageable.  I think my willful ignorance of proper procedure ironically prevented the problems slow curing is supposed to prevent!  Isn't that a kick in the pants!

I'm a farmboy from the Clear Lake area just south of Riding Mountain National Park, about an hour north of Brandon on the #10.  Are you a fellow 'Toban?  Have you finished any of your chokecherry bows?  How did they turn out?

[zenmonkeyman]

I've been pretty much incapable of leaving this stick alone, even though I know a few more days of drying would probably help.  Got it on the tree here.


Lost some of my reflex already.


This darn knot is in an unfortunate location.  It runs diagonally right through the corner here.  I soaked it in super glue, but the bow takes a bit of a twist right here, courtesy of this knot.  Any advice would be appreciated.


Even this dumb little pin knot seems to create a weak spot.  I suspect when I get tillered down to my weight range, it'll be wrecking a corner too.


Sure is purty wood though.  This is the upper limb.


I reread some of my reference posts, and found one voice of experience that warned of fretting, but also said the sapwood is strong enough in tension to handle both the crown and a heat-treated belly.  So I guess that's where I'm headed in order to prevent too much more set.  What do you guys think?

[rileyconcrete]

Zen,

I was going for the same flatbow design you are.  I just though I would let mine dry slowly.  But I have alot of time on my hands and may begin to rough it out and put it on a form to dry.  This will be my first atempt at chokecherry< and hopefully it works good. That stuff grows all over in the mountains here so I can get as much as I want.

Good luck with the rest of your project.  hope it all goes good for ya.

I would hold off and let that thing dry before you get any more set JMO.

Tell

[Stoker]

Hi Zen.. I'm From Medicine Hat Ab. I've bear hunted on the north side of riding mountain near Dauphin
Be careful around the knots that's where you'll get a hinge.That's where I blow'm up.. I chose this stave
because of the challange(freind said I couldn't do it) Made a few low poundage 35 -40 there not bad but
I trying for 55 on this one.. Taking my time one her..
Thanks Leroy

[George Tsoukalas]

Zen, looks like it needs to bend more close to the handle on both limbs. Jawge

[wodpow]

One thing I have found to be true  the outside looks dry but the inside is still slipping fibers because the internal binder  are not  dry and ridged and set up when the out side is semi ridged and the inner is loose it will pop a splinter on the back  when stressed because it is not being held by the slipping fibers when the whole limb fibers are not locked to the core this is just what happened to me over the20 or so selfbows I  have made about 8 were tree limb &sapling trunk bows with high crowns and splinters were a pain  till I made sure they where dried and and solid as it can get.