Placement of handle and string when using a tiller stick/tree

[Flashman]

I guess I have another question that precedes the topic:  How wide should the handle be on a tillering tree (a stick implies a rather narrow piece of wood); or how much of the handle should be touching the handle rest on the tree?  What best replicates a hand?

And, where in relation to the above should the handle be placed in relation to from point where an arrow flies?

Lastly, where on the string should it be pulled and placed in the notch or hook from the tree?

I have been struggling with this for awhile but don't know why have asked sooner.  Thanks for your comments and help.

[half-eye]

flashman,
      The top of my tillering board is 1.25" wide (I recently went to 1"). I make my bows with symetrical limbs so I tiller them evenly with the tiller board 1 to 1.5 above true center. I pull my long string from about where I figure the knocking point should be. Having said that I shoot in the bows with no specified top or bottom limb and see which shoots better (let the bow tell me what it likes) and go with that, usually I come out with a nice even tiller no matter how I grip the bow. (This is for a ridgid handle) D bows I start at the centerline and stay there.
      The fellas that make bows with asymetric limbs, I cant help you with that because I have never made one.

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[artcher1]

My thoughts are: if you want to maintain even stress (and even limb mass) on each limb from the floor tillering stage to full draw you have to pull from dead center of the the bow/string on the tillering board. So here, the amount of handle touching the rest doesn't matter.

If you're trying to replicate your grip by off setting the center of the bow on the board and moving the string's center you simply have to disregard equal limb mass. A recipe for added hand shock IMO. ART

[George Tsoukalas]

I agree with, Art. I pull from center. I do tiller the bottom limb about 1/2 in stiffer. But final tiller check is done in front of a mirror or closed window at night. That way  can tell for sure. I'm sure my neighbors think I'm daft. I also have  my beloved snap a digi. Jawge

[Flashman]

If I understand correctly, when tillering the goal when using a stick or tree is equal limb bend and the nocking points reaching the same level at the final draw length?  This then translates to a slightly stiffer bottom limb (which I know is the goal when using the usual method of the arrow shooting one inch high from center)?

[George Tsoukalas]

Well, that's my goal but that's just the way I do it. Some like to try to tiller where they draw but I don't for the reasons art mentioned. Plus it looks funny doing it that way on the t tree. Jawge

[Del the cat]

My Tiller tree had a curved block on the top, about a 2" radius.
I think it is important to support the bow where you hand will support it (a hand isn't rigid) and allow it to float.
(I know we dont shoot like olympic target archers, but look how loosely they hold a bow)
I even go to the trouble of winching the string back with a double hook on which the prongs are about 1" apart to simulate my fingers.
You will see quite a few pics of guys shooting where the grip is vertical in the hand at rest but at full draw it has pivoted, usually with the bottom of the grip pulling back towards the archer.
I'm not saying any of this is right or wrong, just that I do it so that as the string is drawn the grip stays as still as I can make it.
If you imagine a longrod (like those freaky target guys use) sticking out the front, you wouldn't expect it to move up or down as the bow is drawn.
Allowing the bow to move freely on the tiller gives you a fuller picture of what's happening as the string comes back...Ok I cheat a little to get the darned thing to sit square to start with by getting a bit of tension on the string as it will just topple over if it's not supported at the centre of gravity.
Hopefully you get my drift, (this is all more important on shorter bows)
Del

[dwardo]

But final tiller check is done in front of a mirror or closed window at night. -- I'm sure my neighbors think I'm daft.

I do the same and i also get strange looks from the neighbours 

[George Tsoukalas]

LOL, dwardo.  We have a couple of new families in the neighborhood. I can only imagine. Jawge

[artcher1]

Here's the problem with offsetting the bow/string to try and duplicate ones draw (mostly those that use a light contact grip use this method, or should IMO). Try explaining to others that use a totally different grip (like a full hand/low wrist of medium) how to balance their bow with their preferred limb design/grip and where to place their arrow pass.  I haven't seen anyone yet that could do that with the offset method. Neither method is perfect if using a tillering tree/board, it's just that we need to be specific how/and why both methods work. ART

[Del the cat]

Here's the problem with offsetting the bow/string to try and duplicate ones draw (mostly those that use a light contact grip use this method, or should IMO). Try explaining to others that use a totally different grip (like a full hand/low wrist of medium) how to balance their bow with their preferred limb design/grip and where to place their arrow pass.  I haven't seen anyone yet that could do that with the offset method. Neither method is perfect if using a tillering tree/board, it's just that we need to be specific how/and why both methods work. ART

Good points, I mark the arrow pass early on and I'm usually building a bow for a specific user (me mostly )
Del

[Pappy]

I center the handle on the tree,I also never mark the arrorw pass till I shoot it.I move up and down on the handle till it shoots the best for me then do whatever I want to do for the arrow pass. You
will usually find a sweet spot,if no difference I put it where ever I want to. 
   Pappy

[artcher1]

I see no problem with how anybody lays out their handle or arrow pass. If it flies it flies. One of the  problem that arises is when you make/give/sell (never sold one myself) a bow to someone else. Try giving a finely tillered bow that's set for a light touch to someone that heels a bow to no end.  Then you'll begin to understand the need for "proper grip per arrow pass layout". ART