250 pounder attempt

[adb]

Finally, the light has come on. 

Get yourself an 80-90#@32" bow. Full compass tiller, >76" ntn. Start there, and master that first, with good form. Instead of just pulling these bows, you need to go and actually shoot them. It'll help to practice dry pulling, but shooting is better. Can you get outside and shoot where you live?

Remember... practice doesn't always make perfect... perfect practice makes perfect.

[RyanY]

Well I do have an 80#@32" bow I have mastered that's why I have that other bow started on. I really wish I could go out and shoot but I can't here at school. I may be able to shoot at home on the weekends but it may just be at a target instead of the sky. 

[adb]

Would you e willing to show us some pics of you drawing your 80# bow to 32"?

[RyanY]

I'll try and take some this weekend. I never posted it due to a less than perfect tiller, a lot deep compression fractures, large set, and massive tips. Its a hickory backed zebra wood with a purple heart core. The hickory backing and purpleheart core together are .5" so I don't worry about the compression fractures on the belly. It was an experiment and I learned that zebra wood is not good for bows with rounded bellys and heavy weight. I've shot this thing a lot so I don't worry about it breaking at all. Not the best bow I've made but I'll try and get some pics.

[nickf]

adb, I read your post on the last page. You said you draw the bow with your entire hand, all 4 fingers (sounded kinda funny when I read it first, lol :p)

the guy on the picture below is drawing the bow with 3 fingers. So do I, when I shoot my 100#+ bows. The little finger doesn't really make it more pleasant. A good glove works better

the good thing about drawing to the ear is that you automatically put your body into the bow. Most 'new' guys try to draw to the cheek and find it impossible to draw any further. A few 'dryruns' with a nice 34+  shaft will do some good. You might draw an one inch+  less when shooting the real bow, compared to the 'dryrun'.

goodluck with the 250# rudderbows, it's gonna be hard.
I'd go for 2" x 78" with a slightly (1 1/2") narrowed and thickened handle for comfort (semibending).

Nick

[CraigMBeckett]

nickf ,

I suggest you look at both the post by adb and the photo offered by ryoon again.

1, Adb says that ryoon is pulling with all his hand not that he himself does so. As you can see from this quote: "You're also drawing the string with your entire hand (all four fingers), not the normal three of modern times, or just two fingers of medieval archers"

2. the still on post 47 clearly shows a 4 finger hold, look closely you can count the knuckles. Ryoon has put up a new video on utube, in this he is holding using 3 fingers but that was not what he was doing in the previous video.

Craig

[RyanY]

Ok guys I get it! 4 fingers bad 3 fingers good! Geez! Can a guy get a break?  I watched my other videos and I'm drawing with 3 fingers in them. You can clearly see that my pinky finger is outside of the moccasin. That pic must have been a freak occurrence. I got the arrows Jim sent me today so I'll probably make a video sometime this week showing me drawing with them (no shooting till the weekend). Not right now though. I'm a little sore. 

[Yewboy]

I have been looking at this post with some interest and there has been some interesting things said for and against it.
I think that it would be great to see what a single piece of Hickory could withstand in a bow and good luck with making it, I look forward to seeing it.

With regards shooting it...well I doubt there is anyone who could draw it to the full 32", The compressive forces on the body would be immense and could be harmfull if the person had not trained specifically for it.

With regards getting the draw length up to 32", well that on its own would be good to see, I am very good friends with Mark Stretton and drawing thatr 200# bow nearly killed him and very nearly stopped him shooting full stop.

Ryoon...To you I would say take it slowly, you may have the muscle strength to move a 120 bow to your chin with just the strength in your arms, but that is where things get difficult as unless you are 4' wide at the shoulders you will need to rotate your shoulder to gain the 32" draw length, this puts massive stress on the shoulder joint, Also the bow arm, You suggested that you need to straighten your arm to get the draw length...well I'm afraid that is the worst thing you can do as you are then in a situation where you are placing all of the load on the elbow joint on your bow arm and you will destroy your elbow joint very quickly...result never shoot again.
The other thing you need to take into consideration is your wrist tendon strength, you may have strong arm muscles but the tendons in your wrist on the drawing hand will need many years of repeated practice to strengthen to the point you dont snap them.
I'm not trying to be too negative here but just wanted to point out that these heavy bows can do a lot of damage to your body if you dont take it slow.

Here is a picture of me shooting a 120# bow, you will see the bow arm is not straight and I am drawing to 32", as I am not wide across the shoulders I have to rotate my shoulder blade to the extreme. Anyway I wish you luck with your attempts and be careful.

[adb]

adb, I read your post on the last page. You said you draw the bow with your entire hand, all 4 fingers (sounded kinda funny when I read it first, lol :p)





No mate, you read my post wrong! I said that ryoon was drawing the bow in the picture he posted with all four fingers, which is incorrect. Today, we use mostly 3 fingers to draw, and in medieval times, I believe they just used 2.

[adb]

Thanks, Steve, for making your reply. I sure hope ryoon will listen to you. It's been rather frustrating trying to convince him that eventally, if he continues on his present course, he will injure himself.

ryoon... you listening? Take Steve's advice... he knows what he's talking about.

[RyanY]

Yeah yeah adb.

Thanks for the advice Steve. I don't think I'm over straining myself but I do think it will be good to work at a lower weight for form and keep working on strength with this current bow. I promise I won't push myself to the point of injury. I'm not trying to draw this bow all the way. Just drawing it where I can without hurting myself while still working on strength. Essentially working out with this bow. How did you work up to heavier draw weights?

I love you guys. 

[Yewboy]

Yeah yeah adb.

Thanks for the advice Steve. I don't think I'm over straining myself but I do think it will be good to work at a lower weight for form and keep working on strength with this current bow. I promise I won't push myself to the point of injury. I'm not trying to draw this bow all the way. Just drawing it where I can without hurting myself while still working on strength. Essentially working out with this bow. How did you work up to heavier draw weights?

I love you guys. 

Thats exactly it Ryoon, work on a lighter weight bow untill you have got the technique, then its just a case of repeatedly heavier bows, shooting each one untill you can shoot it with relative ease and with the correct technique, then move up the weight, increments of 5lb can be massive once you get over 100#.
Hope this is helpful to you.
Steve

[Rod]

You will notice that Steve is not humping up his front shoulder.
This is what it should look like when you are in command of the bow and not struggling to support the weight.

I remember running into Mark at Ryton and having a conversation about that 200lb bow.
I definitely got the impression that it is not something that even he would care to make a habit of doing.

Rod.

[rudderbows]

Well , round one on the Big Bow. I took a video of this and I hope I can get it on you tube soon. My computer is wierd so I may have to send the the Chip to my friend and let him put it on you tube for us..
Anyways, round one was easy. I used the most stable platform we have available here, just simple bamboo backed hickory. It is a full 80" in length and pulls a steady 225 @34" using a boat crank. It bounces up to 230 at 35 ,but, the scale is jumpy so I cannot really rely on it. It was steady at 225@34.   It is massive in the hand and is about 1 1'2" wide at mid section tapering to 7/8" wide at the tips. Its fairly thick. Feels more like a baseball bat than a bow. I cant imagine how it would feel to shoot the thing!
 What I learned was some good stuff. The fibers stretch out allot on these Big bows and accounts for allot more draw weight drop than on more normal weights during tillering. What I mean is that on a typical wood bow draw weight is reduced by reducing thickness as well as fiber stretching. Fiber stretching can account for I am guessing anywhere from 5 to 15% of the total weight loss. BUT, on these Big bows the fiber stretching accounts for allot more. When this bow was first drawn back it went to 255 at 34". Than on the second and third draw it dropped all on its own to 225. This means that if we want to achieve a full steady 250 pounds we have to start out on a stave that is at least another 1/8" to 1/4" thicker than this one OR just switch to Ipe as a belly core and try that. When we glued up the original staves for this I glued two with bamboo backed hickory and two with bamboo backed Ipe all 80" in length.  this one is just slightly above 1 1/4" thick in the center and about a hair or two less than an inch at the tips.
 Measurements are deceptive though because each piece of wood has its own density.
Off to another bow stave soon. As soon as I can get my computer to cooperate with you tube I will get it posted so you guys can see the scale and set up.   
 By the way: I would really like to extend a serious thanks to you guys for helping Ryan with advice. he is a motivated , good college boy studying medicine no less. He volunteered for this because he has a mind to achieve things others cannot do and is studying a field that will help the world. hats off to RYAN! .

[adb]

Jim,
Thanks for the update. I very much look forward to seeing some pictures or video. This is very interesting.

How much set has the bow taken? Did you break one along the way, or did the first one work out?

I'm also very interested in seeing your tiller tree set up. It must be massive.

I'm still not sure what the point of all this is... building a bow nobody can shoot... but it's still fascinating to push the limits, and you're certainly doing that!!

Also, I'd encourage you to continue to support Ryan, but in a realistic way, which won't lead him to hurting himself. I'd hate to see a young fella full of pi$$ & vinegar doing himself lasting harm.

Cheers, Adam.